It appears to be over / An apology

[elanjacobs]

There is a very big difference: the Republican senate has explicitly stated before that they will obstruct Democrat legislation for the sole reason of it being Democrat legislation. They aren't interested in review or compromise, thus nothing will get done.

They did it to Obama, they'll do it to Biden

[rrich]

Ian,
You are so right about the vote against the other guy.

This time it was lukewarm for Biden / Harris but also It won't get cold enough to vote for Trump, ever.

[FenceFurniture]

On the day of the first Berate I bumped into an old work colleague from the early 80s. Since then he has had quite a bit to do with the US and spent considerable time there. I had privately already made the same observation that he made in our carpark chat:
"Seriously, out of 330,000,000 people, these are the two best guys you can come up with?"

Only in America. Just be glad of living in Australia where, although imperfect, the system and attitude is much fairer. Can you imagine what would happen to some twat showing up to vote with an AR15 strapped to his back?

[FenceFurniture]

I have a very sickening feeling that the "won't concede" situation will escalate. I would not be at all surprised if the Electoral College voters are beaten into voting faithlessly in the states that can swing it for a genuine election steal. The Pentagon has now been stacked. I don't know how military positions are granted, but I'd not be surprised if a purge the current leaders was at least attempted in favour of those who WOULD act against American civilians.

Can't happen? Won't happen? Remember who we are dealing with here. I doubt he would stop at anything, anything at all, to get re-elected retain power. Even if it were to cost lives.

[rwbuild]

Those with the most to loose will win

[woodPixel]

FenceFurniture, its interesting isn't it.

Everyone assumes the machine is fine, its designed to work a way, that its infallible.... until....

How many democracies have been overthrown, perhaps temporarily (or not), by the forces of conservatives/communists/fascists.

I really dont think the citizens of the USA can assume they are safe.

[ian]

I have a very sickening feeling that the "won't concede" situation will escalate. I would not be at all surprised if the Electoral College voters are beaten into voting faithlessly in the states that can swing it for a genuine election steal. The Pentagon has now been stacked. I don't know how military positions are granted, but I'd not be surprised if a purge the current leaders was at least attempted in favour of those who WOULD act against American civilians.

Can't happen? Won't happen? Remember who we are dealing with here. I doubt he would stop at anything, anything at all, to get re-elected retain power. Even if it were to cost lives.

Everyone assumes the machine is fine, its designed to work a way, that its infallible.... until....

How many democracies have been overthrown, perhaps temporarily (or not), by the forces of conservatives/communists/fascists.

I really dont think the citizens of the USA can assume they are safe.

I was going to urge both of you to calm down, but on third thoughts I won't.

Several things you need to know/realise about the US Constitution and system of Government.

1. Back in about 1917, the US House of Reps passed legislation fixing the total number of House members at 438. The reason was to do with the physical size of the house chamber, which sits in a building built in the early 19th century.

2. In 1910, the US census year on which the 438 size limit was based, the population of the US was between 25% and 30% what it is today (2020). The result is that in most states the "popular vote" is massively diluted compared to the state's Electoral College entitlement.

3. The 1787 US Constitution was deliberately drafted to exclude the US people directly voting for their President. Instead the 1787 US Constitution gave the authority on selecting members of the Electoral College to the States, only some states have delegated the authority to select their Electoral College members to their citizens.


Given this system, it is quite possible for Trump to loose the Electoral College vote -- which at the time of writing he appears to have done -- but because more states (I think it is 33) are controlled by his Republican allies, Trump can still win a majority of the electoral college vote when the college meets to actually vote in early December.

Note that given my understanding of the 1787 US Constitution, this outcome, while not according to the expressed will of the voters, is still, under the US system, perfectly legal. It does not rate as a "stolen election" as the US Constitution doesn't give US citizens the voting rights they think they have.



Now where it gets interesting is how the US military reacts.
The Military have sworn an oath to "preserve, protect and defend the US Constitution". Given this sworn oath, it would be an act of rebellion for Military personnel to NOT act to protect a Constitutional provision that is at least a century beyond its use-by date.


So, I suppose my conclusion is "watch this space"

[FenceFurniture]

It's not a matter of calming down, but observing what appears to be going on. Time will tell.

...while not according to the expressed will of the voters, is still, under the US system, perfectly legal. It does not rate as a "stolen election" as the US Constitution doesn't give US citizens the voting rights they think they have.

The point is that the 77 or so million people who voted for Biden will regard it as stolen, under those circumstances.

Now where it gets interesting is how the US military reacts.
The Military have sworn an oath to "preserve, protect and defend the [COLOR=#000000 !important]US Constitution". Given this sworn oath, it would be an act of rebellion for Military personnel to NOT act to protect a Constitutional provision that is at least a century beyond its use-by date. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000000 !important]Trump swore a similar if not virtually identical oath. He hasn't lived up to it in four years.[/COLOR]

[woodPixel]

Well, that's the thing about rebellion isn't it. One doesn't follow The Rules.

[FenceFurniture]

Somewhat relevant to this forum :
I just hope the Manbaby doesn't vandalise the Resolute Desk during a giant tantrum. I certainly wouldn't put it past him to carve into the top "We wuz robbed 2020" or "Donny waz here" just to try and spite Biden.

[rob streeper]

It worries me that he's been so quiet.

I've been reading Nuremberg Diary by G.M. Gilbert, the similarities are disturbing.

[ian]

I just hope the Manbaby doesn't vandalise the Resolute Desk during a giant tantrum. I certainly wouldn't put it past him to carve into the top "We wuz robbed 2020" or "Donny waz here"

you looking for a reference Brett?

"Australia Restoration Expert" or similar ?

[elanjacobs]

I'll just leave this here...

[Chesand]

I received that and was going to post it but you beat me to it, Elan.

There was a quote in the paper the other day "he spat his dummy and threw the toys out of his cot".
A quote on ABC24 by a republican "Trump has a relatively relaxed relationship with the truth".

[elanjacobs]

Relaxed? I'd be describing it as actively hostile...