Solid Timber floorboards & acclimatisation?

[Gaza]

When installing boards wider than 85mm we try to secrete nail first with the gun, this works if the boards are nice and stright, the floor pulls togerther neat, but if the boards are not stright, (this can occur from being stacked on site incorreclty), we use a floor clamp or chesile to pull the boards together.

Once a section of floor is installed we run a chalk line down the joists and then top nail down the line so that the nails are stright and neat.

I have sacked guys because they did not top nail before going home at night, it is the kind of thing i have bad dreams over, a floor poping and moving, 6in floors will move more than 4in as the board moves across its width, the wider the board the more possible movement.

Also dont use std liquid nails, build bond or any other ridged setting construction adhsive, and when top nailing use either "T" nails or ND brads. not "C" series

Its upto you, listen if you want but give Boral a ring on Monday monring and ask them the question.

The timber floor industry is full of a lot of crap tradesmen and flooring shops, i am not saying i am the best, but after writting almost 20,000 word thesis on it, and working in the industry i do have some small idea,

You can download the draft Aust Std from www.timber.net.au which has a table regard board widths and fixing methods.

Regards, Trevor
Grafton.
Quality control technician.
Kiln drying Manager.
Dry products supervisor.
Timber floor inspector.
Australian Hardwood timber flooring manufacturer.

The company that Trevor runs is one of the leaders in dry hardwood products and has been in the business for a long time, if you listen to any one you should listen to him.

[vGolfer]

I appreciate the advice guys. I didn't mean to come across as though I thought I knew better - it was just the first I had heard that it wasn't a good idea to secret nail 130mm boards.

Lucky for me I found this out prior to the boards being laid. I'll definitely be in touch with the installers to find out what they say. The installers have been organised by the Boral flooring showroom, so I am assuming they know what they are doing. Perhaps I shouldn't assume so much.

Cheers

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I appreciate the advice guys. I didn't mean to come across as though I thought I knew better - it was just the first I had heard that it wasn't a good idea to secret nail 130mm boards.

I don't think you did come across that way, nor do I think anyone intended to "slap you down." We're a contentious lot and just come across that way at times.

I wouldn't worry unduly about your floor, as it's the manufacturer's who've arranged the installation. But I would definitely still check up on what sort of warranty is offered, if only for better peace of mind. Boral's a fairly large company and may run a tighter "risk margin" than smaller companies because they can afford the occasional warranty job.

[Dan_574]

go with a satin finish, gloss shows up dust and dirt more

[glock40sw]

G'day vGolfer.

Please don't think that I was having a go at you.
I wasn't.
I just wanted to state the facts.

It would be wrong of me to let you continue with an installation that could cause you extreme financial difficulties further down the track.
I try to help where I can with info that I know.

Your installer should check the moisture content of the flooring when it arrives on site. Then he can decide if it needs time to climatise or be layed direct from the pack.
We dry to a lower average to allow direct from pack installation.
However, if the flooring is going to a location that is on the coast or north QLD, Then climatisation is required.

Please use Bostick Ultraset or Sika T55J adhesive. For christ's sake do NOT use MAXBOND or LIQUID NAILS. Water based adhesive is a huge NO-NO as well.

When piling for climatisation, please place short boards across the rows of long boards to allow air to flow under and over the rows. Just block stacking it in the rooms does buggerall.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

[attie]

"It will tell you that moisture content must be 9 to 14 % at time of installation."

Trevor, for all the years I installed flooring not once did I ever climatised it onsite. We relied on you guys to provide the product to the above standards and not once did I ever have a problem. Pleased to see the others pick up on the secret nailing in the wide boards, I would never secret nail a board over x 2". To do so is surely looking for trouble, satin A was my favourite and I guess you are familiar with it. Personally I don't think Boral would give a rats about gauranteeing their work as they are a big company with plenty of legal advise to get out of it. Also I personally don't like the look of wide floor boards, x 3" and under, maybe 4", gives character to a room

[vGolfer]

Just a bit of an update on this. We got in touch with the installer and queried him about secret nailing the 130mm boards. He said that is a legitimate point but said that by mass glueing Bostik Ultraset using a trowel (rather than a strip of glue) and also powercleats into Yellowtongue, this will make cupping of the boards very unlikely. He said that the more likely thing to cause cupping would be moisture and this can happen just as easily when the boards are top nailed.

I am basically paraphrasing what the guy said, but I must say I am still a little uneasy. We have some friends that had 130mm boards glued and secret nailed about 12 months ago and I must say the look great. I just don't want to be paranoid of problems occuring.

I'm a bit in two minds now...

[glock40sw]

G'day All.
I've just got back from a 2 day timber flooring conference.
I asked some of the people there about secret nailing 130mm boards.
Two of the blokes that know me said that I needed hitting up the side of the head for even asking such a stupid question, as I already know the correct answer.
ie: glue and topnail only.

A few said that they do secret nail and trowell glue. But only for jobs that are 110% right for it and they make the owners sign a no fault clause noted in front of and signed also by a J.P.

So...there you have it, boys & Girlies.

Make your choice and pick your poison.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Grafton

[farm0089]

Hi All,

We are in the final stages of our renovation. The builder have incorrectly installed our floorboards, he secret nailed our 135mm boards against our instructions to top nail it.

The builder has agreed to fix it by top nailing it as is by calculating the distance between each joise. My concern is that you have to be very accurate to do this. Any difference is the gap is multiplied by the number of joise.

Also the boards are on chipboard base, so there is even no chance for me to lift one of the boards to check if the nails got on the joise.

Are my concerns justified?

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this or advice.

Thanks.

Francis
0418-100881

[Shedhand]

Hi All,

We are in the final stages of our renovation. The builder have incorrectly installed our floorboards, he secret nailed our 135mm boards against our instructions to top nail it.

The builder has agreed to fix it by top nailing it as is by calculating the distance between each joise. My concern is that you have to be very accurate to do this. Any difference is the gap is multiplied by the number of joise.

Also the boards are on chipboard base, so there is even no chance for me to lift one of the boards to check if the nails got on the joise.

Are my concerns justified?

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this or advice.

Thanks.

Francis
0418-100881

If your builder fixed the boards contrary to your instructions then he should lift the boards and do them as per your instructions at his cost.

[ThePope]

and what's the theory behind lifting the entire floor Shedhand.
he's making good on his mistake by renailing so I can't see any problem if done properly.

[Markw]

Could I suggest making the builder use 50mm nails (or longer??) for the rework. That way you can check from the underside, assuming that this is not onto a concrete slab, that the nails are into the joist and not just the chipboard. You may have been played for the fool once, don't let it happen again.

BTW - This should not be regarded as a mistake, when a builder is specifically instructed to carry out a job in a certain way he/she should either comply or state that he will not perform the work in this fashion. That way you get someone who will. To perform the work contary to instructions should end up with some form of penalty, preferably financial. Instructions and variations should also be given in writing so that no excuses tolerated.

[noodlenut]

Please use Bostick Ultraset or Sika T55J adhesive. For christ's sake do NOT use MAXBOND or LIQUID NAILS. Water based adhesive is a huge NO-NO as well.

Oh Bugger...
I've posted a thread in this forum asking about filling my 130mm Blackbutt boards and was having a browse when I read this thread...Bugger...

It appears I've broken two of the golden rules. One, I had a box of liquid nails left over after putting down the yellow tongue so being a tight ##### owner builder guess where that is now... then I thought the C bradder I bought for the fix out would do quite nicely throwing a 38mm brad through to hold the boards while the glue set - less time, smaller hole to fill...
Yessss that'll do me nicely, I said, idiot.
Now half way through, is it worth ripping the bloody lot up and starting again or do I change adhesive for the remaining and hope the kitchen will help keep this section of the floor on the deck???

Of course I will blame the minister for home affairs for pressuring me to finish the bloody thing thereby not allowing me enough time to research...

Noodles

[Pulse]

I love this thread,

just thought I'd share a story about a popped floor in Paddington Bowling Club restaurant (in Sydney). There is a single run of flooring for about 50 metres, with the restaurant at one end. Down the middle of the restaurant is a ridge of popped boards about 6 inches high and 3 feet wide. Very funny watching the waitresses stumble on it every time. Bit annoying when one of your chair legs sits on it though.

Cheers
Pulse

[glock40sw]

Now half way through, is it worth ripping the bloody lot up and starting again or do I change adhesive for the remaining and hope the kitchen will help keep this section of the floor on the deck???
Noodles

G'day.
I'd swap glue and keep going.
Flooring that has been torn up and relaid looks wrong.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton