Katoomba Monthly Temp average set to be SMASHED!!! AGAIN!!!

[FenceFurniture]

In a way, it is our abundant fuel sources (coal and gas) that are inhibiting the development of research and any degree of open mindness amongst the government in particular.

Yes, in one way it is a pity that our coal is (often) of such high quality and our gas so abundant (particularly mine). It gives a lazy Govt a cop-out position on a plate.

[Beardy]

Yes, in one way it is a pity that our coal is (often) of such high quality and our gas so abundant (particularly mine). It gives a lazy Govt a cop-out position on a plate.

Yes and it has been one of the backbones of this countries financial security for many years so it is a big step and transition to move away

When you think about the big deal it was bringing in the GST, it will probably be nothing compared to the changes that will need to be made to our current tax/ revenue collection system when fossil fuels are phased out.
The pollies will have plenty to argue about navigating a path through that.

[Bushmiller]

Originally Posted by Bushmiller
I absolutely remember that bottle. Possibly the best red wine I have ever got drunk on.



But not the second one, apparently

BTW Brett (see, I am learning all the abbreviations)

I had forgot to mention regarding a small degree of quotational licence going on there that the eagle eyed followers of this thread may have picked up upon. The actual quotation in post # 739 was:

" I absolutely remember that bottle. Possibly the best red wine I have ever drunk."

I know it is only a very small change but it reflects seriously on my sober nature.



Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

Yes and it has been one of the backbones of this countries financial security for many years so it is a big step and transition to move away

Indeed Beardy, but then again so was wool and wheat for Menzies entire Prime Ministership, and that made him incredibly lazy too. Australia could have been right out there as a Space launch site (Woomera is perfect apparently) but Pig Iron Bob couldn't see that wool and wheat would only go so far, because the world changes (and the UK was completely buggered by then due to WWII). The poor old fool wanted to be PM of the UK. He may be revered by Howard, but Menzies has a very great deal to answer for in holding back this country with missed opportunities.

[rwbuild]

A bit of light hearted entertainment with some serious technology, interesting to see the 4 vids of the build
YouTube

[woodPixel]

Not a Cybertruck, but the mighty Baojun E100 city car.

A ridiculous price too! - ~$7000

88261075_149314882851248_3225100949840199680_n.png

Baojun E100 Info, Range, Power, Specs, Wiki | GM Authority


It wont be long until some streeter gets their hands on one of these and turns them into Lightning Rods (Muscle cars converted to EVs, or "sleepers" i.e. boring cars that go like greased lightning).

[Bushmiller]

(Muscle cars converted to EVs, or "sleepers" i.e. boring cars that go like greased lightning).

I think we used to call these types of cars "Q" cars or a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I think the Baojin had limited distribution, but I don't see why it couldn't be adopted as a city car in any city.

Regards
Paul

[NeilS]

However, even in Switzerland with it's abundance of sites it is not plain sailing and I took from your first link that they have to deal with the environmental issue and the potential changes hydro systems make to the ecology.

Zactly, Paul.

It's one thing to look at a topographical map and nominate a potential dam site, but getting the social licence to construct it is another matter.

Even in a dry continent like ours where dams are essential for secure water supply, very few dams have been built over the last decade or so. I think it's only 20 large ones since 2003.

And of those only one has hydro as one of its purposes. You have to go back to 1993 for the last dam to be built purely for hydroelectricity.

See spreadsheet link at bottom of this link on the ANCOLD website.

You are right that we don't have the mountains to justify too much hydro despite the earlier identification of 10,000 sites. I think some of those may be a lot more marginal than was admitted.

Paul, I presume you are referring to this publication from the ANU: An atlas of pumped hydro energy storage

It did identify 22,000 potential sites, but it has the following disclaimer upfront.

None of the PHES sites discussed in this study have been the subject of geological, hydrological, environmental and other studies, and it is not known whether any particular site would be suitable.There has been no investigation of land tenure apart from exclusion of national parks and urban areas,and no discussions with land owners and managers.

As they explain, their focus was on "off-river (closed loop) PHES requir[ing] pairs of reservoirs that are generally [only] 10-100 hectares in size, rather like oversized farm dams, located in hilly country away from rivers, urban areas and national parks."

So, small footprint implementations, and less likely to have the same issues as some of the larger dams have run into in the past.

PS. What I did take from the two articles was that the Europeans may be moving away from nuclear but really the main one was that they have been talking and making plans since 2012!

Yes, when I was in Scadinavia last year the situation couldn't be more different to here. Even in the smallest Norwegian town in the remote far north there were rows of Tesla cars lined up recharging for free in the central public car park. They do have a big advantage from their hydro, but they are not sitting on their hands. They are installing wind turbines apace. I asked why they were doing that when they already have more power generation than they need. The answer; we will use the wind power when that is blowing here (it always seems to be blowing on that fjord coastline), save our hydro and then dispatch that into Europe at a premium when the wind isn't blowing there...

[Beardy]

The utes are coming too

10 electric utes on the horizon | CarAdvice

[Bushmiller]

If we consider for a moment that renewable sources of power will eventually take over from the fossil fueled stations, although quite likely, particularly in Australia, not fast enough, I don't see that much will change in the home or indeed industry. The electrical plugs will still be the same.

Not so with vehicles and transport in general. The combustion vehicles will be obsolete and with no fuel available. Everybody will be faced with purchasing a new vehicle. Trains can be and already are electric so no problem there. What happens with ships and planes? What will they be burning?

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

The combustion vehicles will be obsolete and with no fuel available. Everybody will be faced with purchasing a new vehicle.

A question that I raised some time ago (but possibly during the white noise phase) was "At what point will a fossil fuel vehicle become impossible to sell, and therefore worthless?"

It could be sooner than we think.

It's not hard to see EVs evolving quite quickly now, so getting the infrastructure in for recharging away from home will begin to become critical. The increased development speed of EVs will probably mean that more research money will go into batteries as they strive for lighter weights, higher capacities and quicker recharge times, and with that EVs will probably surge strongly.

Often you have to be in a situation to think of the consequences, but one thing that I have wondered about is people with EVs who have to park on the street (no garage). In the inner cities this is extremely common. Here I can at least park in the front yard, so no extension lead wandering across the footpath (for others to nick a recharge from....) but there are certainly some security and logistical concerns to address.

Another thing to consider is the battery cavity/storage in vehicles with current tech batteries - when new batteries come on stream they will need too be able to be easily retro-fitted to current vehicles.



Which tech will win for vehicles? Hydrogen or Batteries? I can't see room for both. The torque, acceleration, quietness, relative simplicity of motor, lack of gearbox would sure seem to favour EVs, as would it being much easier to ramp up public area recharging rather than a whole new hydrogen refill industry.

[Bushmiller]

Brett

Pretty much agree with all you have said and I had not really considered the extension cord out of a ninth floor apartment, but it may be that some people have to charge their vehicles at a charging station: Not unlike going to a fuel station today, although the charging time might be longer than a tank top up. Once more charging stations abound and charging times reduce (may not be possible with lithium ion batteries as that is what cause their problems) this inconvenience will probably be minimised and absorbed into a new culture.

But... what about ships and planes? I was going to say I can't see a super tanker running on 24V Li, but maybe there will not be a need for super tankers. So make that luxury cruise liners. Will a 747 become so heavy with batteries that it can only carry a few passengers? They carry up to 239,000L of fuel which is probably a little over 220,000Kg. Is that enough battery or will they have to occasionally ditch over the ocean? In other words would electricity be viable for these two forms of transport or do we have to think again?

Regards
Paul

[Beardy]

Just a thought but rather than waiting on charging batteries in a public place, I could see a Swap and Go type scenario emerging at service stations so you don’t own the batteries just hire
That would only work if it could be modulised

The other brainwave I had was what if our roads could be made from a solar absorbing medium, I know there has been some experimenting with the concept in the past but haven’t heard much more

[woodPixel]

A few thoughts here to many points above:

-- "Petrol" will never run out. It can be synthesised. Interestingly from coal and any other source of CO2. My car (an ancient 2001 HSV VX V8 with a 6L engine) can easily use ethanol. In fact, I used to get BPs super-sexy 105 RON which was a high mix of this and the car performance was absolutely phenomenal. The computer accommodated the different mixtures dynamically and without any updating of the engine maps or tune. This is an OLD car!

-- On Petrol 2... I invested in a few startups that does exactly this. One uses algae that produces incredibly pure ethanol using nothing but sunlight and the CO2 from the air. The other has a tech that uses solar panels (photovoltaics for energy) to such CO2 from the atmosphere using a platinum catalyst. Both are promising. I believe this so much, my super is split three ways (coal (!!!), platinum and solar companies).

-- "What of petrol cars".... I believe there will be a healthy market for engine swapouts to EV-your-car. Lightning Rods are an excellent, but extreme, example of this. 95% of people only need a city bumble-wagon and 150km ranges. Engine swaps will become a thing. I follow a few dudes in the USA who do this to VW Bettles now. They go like slingshots.

-- On street parking.... I live in a new area. The local shops and some underground parking areas have ultrachargers and the Tesla quick chargers. I'd say the future city areas might have the equivalent of parking meters that also dispense juice (the ultimate in paid parking!)

-- On street parking 2... why not combine hydrogen and batteries? I know of a comapny that selles, now, a hydrogen catalyst cell that one puts H into one end and it pumps out electrons. Use this to recharge "in emergency". Have a (small?) tank of H that one fills at a regular "Gas Station" (Ha! The yanks get one back at us!) and it uses it in emergency.

-- On Home Charging... I enquired with our buildings body corporate about putting in a charging point in our carspot. They were OK with that, but wanted to ensure it was metered and not sucking the public juice. Fair enough. No kick back from them about it, so retrofitting for units seems like it might be OK.

[FenceFurniture]

But... what about ships and planes?

I dare say they'll end up being Hydrogen powered, but the solution for cruise ships is dead simple - torpedoes.

The introduction of Graphene into lithium batteries seems to take care of the rapid charging problem. The current experimental ones charge in about 1/6th the time, IIRC.

Just a thought but rather than waiting on charging batteries in a public place, I could see a Swap and Go type scenario emerging at service stations so you don’t own the batteries just hire
That would only work if it could be modulised

Swapping the batteries is likely to take longer than recharging them, even if they do reduce the size of them substantially. Currently they are pretty much the whole bottom of the car, or something like that.