Shellac based products

[Lappa]

I’ve realised my limitations in using shellac On the backboard trims and hood, the sections are small and have resulted in the exact finish I wanted

However, the cover, which is the largest area and most seen, is causing problems. There is no way I can get the finish I want. It’s either splotchy or great in 90% of the surface and flat in the other 10%. I clean it back and try again and it’s still $#@&.
I seem to have the technique for small areas and lose it on large areas. Yes, I have the Polishing Handbook

So i’ve decided to have it done professionally.

In the meantime, I have been trying some different shellac based products
I bought some Feast Watson Mastertouch French Polish which states that it’s shellac based. Application is simpler than shellac (I find) with 1 to 2 filling coats then more coats to increase the level of gloss. It’s applied with a brush or lint free pad or a lint free pad and mop for final coats. I used some on a piece of timber and the finish was excellent.
However, and here’s the kicker, there is a statement to seek profession advice before using on antiques.

is it a no no for antiques?

I also came across another product called Bio Seed-lac which also comes in a bottle but I haven’t been able to get much info on it re application except that a French polisher recommends it and states he uses it on some items at his discretion or when asked by the customer to use it. He says it provides a better, more durable finish that plain shellac. This is echoed on other websites

Any thoughts on that product?

I would appreciate any feedback on these products or other shellac based finishes.

Cheers

[homey]

Hi Lappa,

Not sure what it is you re polishing or how big it is, but my general thoughts on shellac:

I use shellac a lot. Usually U-beaut hard shellac as it has an additive which cross-links after a few weeks and gives much better protection. I like this product because it doesn’t impart the orange colour than many others do.

With all shellacs I aim for a thin mix (more meths, less shellac) - for UB hard shellac I add the same amount of meths as the shellac out of the bottle. Thicker mixes (cuts) are stickier and hard to handle.

Mostly I apply by rubber because I find the slow build to be very smooth, but if I have a very open-grained timber I will brush on six coats of the thin cut, being sure not to work the surface (i.e. not go backwards and forwards as one might with paint). This is because of the speed with which shellac dries. I leave around 15 minutes between coats then at the end leave it a couple of hours and sand lightly with 600 grit just to get a smooth finish. I use a small hard sanding block for this, changing paper frequently.

Next day I do another 6 brushed coats then sand gently with 800 or 1200. Then I start to use the rubber - damp but never wet. If the work becomes sticky I smear a couple of drops of mineral oil (Johnson’s Baby Oil) over the work surface then continue. There should be no sticky or blotchy bits. Be aware that if the humidity is high you may get moisture into the finish which could cause ‘blooming’ - a white haze.

I plan around 7 days for building the finish. Then I start to add only meths to the back of the rubber which gradually dilutes the cut. At the same time as the cut is getting thinner I allow the pad to become drier so I’m moving the shellac around and burnishing it.

It all sounds complicated but isn’t really. Good shellac and fresh industrial methylated spirits plus a bit of patience. If you’re not looking for a super high gloss build it can be much faster.

I strongly recommend master finisher Peter Gedrys’ Youtube video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xErUsgT7f4M

Good luck!

Brian

[Lappa]

Thanks Brian.
I’m finishing the front cover of a friesen clock - thread in the Restoration section.
I may have found the problem however. I restored a 1900s cabinet some time ago and that was my first go with shellac and it came up a treat - no problems with applying the shellac finish.. I was just searching for the thread and found out it was in July 2017. - times flys - so the shellac is probably well past it’s use-by-date. Just ordered some new flakes so I’ll give it another go this weekend.
Also I ran out of linen and was using old sheet material but the guy in the video said it was too thick so I’ll pick up some new linen as well.

I’ll report back next week hopefully with better results.

[homey]

Great that you to have identified the problem, Lappa. Very frustrating, I know!

Your explanation sounds spot on. I’m currently using some shellac with a use by date of October 2018 and it really is on its last legs. I confess I can’t be bothered with the flakes, good though they are. I’ve spoken to a few furniture and box makers in the UK and they seem to use pre-mixed shellac almost exclusively - mainly Liberon or Mylands. Here in Australia U-beaut products work fine for me.

As to cloth I use old T shirts that are in Bags of Rags from Bunnings or I buy old linen from the Op Shop.

Good luck!

Brian

[Lappa]

Can anyone tell me if Ubeaut's White shellac (premixed) contains the same shellac flakes as Blonde dewaxed shellac flakes?

[dinosour]

Not sure of the answer to your last question Lappa, but thank you both for sharing a problem and solution.
As was stated good metho comes in various dilutions with of all things water. Ensure you get good quality metho.
Thanks again guys

[ubeaut]

Can anyone tell me if Ubeaut's White shellac (premixed) contains the same shellac flakes as Blonde dewaxed shellac flakes?

Sorry, I missed this one, but I replied to Lappa in a PM after being asked the question.

Thought it might be of interest to others so am posting the response here. With a little bit extra.

No it is not the same as dewaxed blond shellac. It is made with dewaxed bleached shellac powder.

Most white shellac has a creamy colour to it, due to the wax content our White Shellac (dewaxed) is a clear light honey colour (not as dark as website pic).

The blond flakes when mixed is more yellow and may change the colour of white woods and add a slight a yellow hue to other timbers. Hard Blond was used for our Shellawax Glow friction polish until we changed to Lemon Shellac a year or so ago.

The bleached white won't change the colour any more than wetting the wood down with water or metho.

We use the dewaxed bleached (White Shellac) because it can also be used for making your own sanding sealer, plus it's the base for our Hard Shellac, (also not as dark as website pic). which in turn is the base for our Shellawax, Shellawax Cream and Aussie Oil, friction polishes. The white Shellac is also used as the base for our Sanding Sealer.

Hope this is of some help and interest to some.

Cheers - Neil

[Lappa]

Wow! what a difference a fresh batch of shellac makes.

Stripped it back with metho and gave it a light sanding. Worked on it over three days on and off and will now let it sit for three or so weeks.

i’m really happy with how it’s turned out.

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Thanks for the help