HELP Brisbane builder or handyman quote needed for daughter's uni project...

[Chief Tiff]

Hey everybody,

I'm asking for a ballpark quote from a registered builder or handyman to cut out a tree shape from plywood and attach it to a wall. However; this isn't a real commission yet; it's something my daughter is doing for a uni team project and only one design will be chosen for actual implementation...

1st stage is to get a brief from a "client" and come up with an idea.
2nd stage is work out how the idea can be executed and work out costs.
3rd stage is to pitch this idea to the "client", one design is selected based on originality and feasibility.
4th stage is the execution of the winning design. This is why the quote has to "real"; there is a possibility that it might actually get made after all... Of course; then the quotes will have to be reviewed because only at that point will the final workscope be known. This is why a ballpark is good enough; nothing will be held to it.

Her team is at stage 2 and they need a quote by COB Tuesday... nothing like giving plenty of notice, hey?

What they've come up with is a tree shape made from ply and stuck to a wall. There is a bench seat attached to the wall with ropes going up to one of the "branches" to give the idea of a swing. And the whole thing is supposed to be like a center for people to take selfies etc on.... yeah; I know... . The wall they're using is situated in Bowen hills and the overall max size will be about 4m wide and 2.5m high, basically four sheets of ply size.
The tree will then be painted by an "artist"; apparently that's already accounted for 50% of the $5k "budget" they've been given

So;

Mark out and cut the tree shape from the sheets of 1/2" thick external ply, exact scale image to be provided at a later date. The shape won't be massively difficult; it'll be more the upper leaves and branches as the rest will be be getting painted in some ghastly modern style.
Deliver to the wall in Bowen Hills and attach using simple masonry anchors.
The quote is to include the cost of the ply and masonry fittings.

I've attached their concept sketches to give youse the basic idea, and also pictures of the wall, sorry but it is was dark when they looked at it.

Seriously; if someone can spare five minutes to look at this objectively and PM me with with a ballpark figure in the next couple of days that would be AWESOME!!!

Wall 2.jpgWall 1.jpgTree 1.jpgTree 2.jpg

[Simplicity]

Hey everybody,

I'm asking for a ballpark quote from a registered builder or handyman to cut out a tree shape from plywood and attach it to a wall. However; this isn't a real commission yet; it's something my daughter is doing for a uni team project and only one design will be chosen for actual implementation...

1st stage is to get a brief from a "client" and come up with an idea.
2nd stage is work out how the idea can be executed and work out costs.
3rd stage is to pitch this idea to the "client", one design is selected based on originality and feasibility.
4th stage is the execution of the winning design. This is why the quote has to "real"; there is a possibility that it might actually get made after all... Of course; then the quotes will have to be reviewed because only at that point will the final workscope be known. This is why a ballpark is good enough; nothing will be held to it.

Her team is at stage 2 and they need a quote by COB Tuesday... nothing like giving plenty of notice, hey?

What they've come up with is a tree shape made from ply and stuck to a wall. There is a bench seat attached to the wall with ropes going up to one of the "branches" to give the idea of a swing. And the whole thing is supposed to be like a center for people to take selfies etc on.... yeah; I know... . The wall they're using is situated in Bowen hills and the overall max size will be about 4m wide and 2.5m high, basically four sheets of ply size.
The tree will then be painted by an "artist"; apparently that's already accounted for 50% of the $5k "budget" they've been given

So;

Mark out and cut the tree shape from the sheets of 1/2" thick external ply, exact scale image to be provided at a later date. The shape won't be massively difficult; it'll be more the upper leaves and branches as the rest will be be getting painted in some ghastly modern style.
Deliver to the wall in Bowen Hills and attach using simple masonry anchors.
The quote is to include the cost of the ply and masonry fittings.

I've attached their concept sketches to give youse the basic idea, and also pictures of the wall, sorry but it is was dark when they looked at it.

Seriously; if someone can spare five minutes to look at this objectively and PM me with with a ballpark figure in the next couple of days that would be AWESOME!!!

Wall 2.jpgWall 1.jpgTree 1.jpgTree 2.jpg

Hi Chief,

Happy to help out with a quote.
We run a handyman business in Melbourne.
If you can Pm me the details to go on the quote I write the quote up tomorrow night.
I understand I won’t actually be doing the work, unless the uni want to cover my travel expenses as well .

Cheers Matt

[Chief Tiff]

That's a great offer Matt, thank you; though it really needs to be someone in the Brisbane area... unless you can subby it out! PM will still be sent.

Still hoping for a Brisvegas builder/handyman to chime in...

[Chief Tiff]

Bump; but only because of the short time frame available. The thread should expire of natural causes in 24hrs anyway!

[ian]

Why a "registered" builder or handiman?

As far as I know registration is only required where the project cost exceeds $10,000.

Your daughter's biggest single expense will be cutting out the tree shape -- and that will depend on how the shape is presented.
and then installing the



Getting to the nitty-gritty
If your daughter's budget is $5,000 and the artist / painter is looking at consuming 50% of that, what your daughter wants is IMO not doable.

This is my reasoning

• This is a "commercial" exercise so you will have a project manager who would be looking at pocketing somewhere between 10 and 20% of the project budget.
• The project designer, your daughter should be looking at recovering an amount similar to the artist's fee -- at the end of the day the painting is mostly "trade" work -- unless the 50% for painting includes the entire design concept and your daughter is acting as the project manager.
• budget the best part of two days to cut out and install the sculpture at a rate of $100 per hour (this is a charge out rate, the actual doer will only receive around $40 per hour), so there's another $1500, excluding travel.
• Allow $500 for materials.
• So far the exercise has cost the entire $5,000 budget and your daughter has worked her off for nothing, and still does not have an "engineering certificate" that will allow the seat to be used s intended.

Which is perhaps the point of the exercise.

To go back to your daughter's task
She needs to sack the "artist" or negotiate a much lower rate for the painting.
On her cost schedule she needs to include:

• Project manager -- somewhere between 10 and 20% of her budget
• Engineering certificate for the seat -- at a guess that would cost between $500 and $1000 (Unfortunately, engineers get to go to jail if they get something like the seat supports wrong so they are nor cheap.)
• Materials -- my straight out guess is $6-700, but a walk around Bunnings is probably sufficient.
• Manufacture -- this will depend on whether the shape is
  
  • CNC cut using a "ready to go" file or if the manufacturer needs to convert your daughter's drawing into a suitable file format, if the latter budget several hours to do the file construction / conversion.
  • traced onto the ply and cut with a jig saw. This will take longer than cutting with CNC and depending on what is required could result in an edge requiring extensive smoothing or sanding.
  
  
• Installation:
  
  • site preparation (permits, scaffolding, pedestrian control -- you may need a temporary fence.)
  • budget on a day by the installer which would include travel.
  • site clean up
  
  
• Painting -- $2,500 for this item alone makes the project nonviable.
• Cost recovery for the design team and their profit margin (a 25% profit margin translates to around 1 in 5 bids being successful).

Wish your daughter all the best from me.

[Simplicity]

Why a "registered" builder or handiman?

As far as I know registration is only required where the project cost exceeds $10,000.

Your daughter's biggest single expense will be cutting out the tree shape -- and that will depend on how the shape is presented.
and then installing the



Getting to the nitty-gritty
If your daughter's budget is $5,000 and the artist / painter is looking at consuming 50% of that, what your daughter wants is IMO not doable.

This is my reasoning

• This is a "commercial" exercise so you will have a project manager who would be looking at pocketing somewhere between 10 and 20% of the project budget.
• The project designer, your daughter should be looking at recovering an amount similar to the artist's fee -- at the end of the day the painting is mostly "trade" work -- unless the 50% for painting includes the entire design concept and your daughter is acting as the project manager.
• budget the best part of two days to cut out and install the sculpture at a rate of $100 per hour (this is a charge out rate, the actual doer will only receive around $40 per hour), so there's another $1500, excluding travel.
• Allow $500 for materials.
• So far the exercise has cost the entire $5,000 budget and your daughter has worked her off for nothing, and still does not have an "engineering certificate" that will allow the seat to be used s intended.

Which is perhaps the point of the exercise.

To go back to your daughter's task
She needs to sack the "artist" or negotiate a much lower rate for the painting.
On her cost schedule she needs to include:

• Project manager -- somewhere between 10 and 20% of her budget
• Engineering certificate for the seat -- at a guess that would cost between $500 and $1000 (Unfortunately, engineers get to go to jail if they get something like the seat supports wrong so they are nor cheap.)
• Materials -- my straight out guess is $6-700, but a walk around Bunnings is probably sufficient.
• Manufacture -- this will depend on whether the shape is
  
  • CNC cut using a "ready to go" file or if the manufacturer needs to convert your daughter's drawing into a suitable file format, if the latter budget several hours to do the file construction / conversion.
  • traced onto the ply and cut with a jig saw. This will take longer than cutting with CNC and depending on what is required could result in an edge requiring extensive smoothing or sanding.
  
  
• Installation:
  
  • site preparation (permits, scaffolding, pedestrian control -- you may need a temporary fence.)
  • budget on a day by the installer which would include travel.
  • site clean up
  
  
• Painting -- $2,500 for this item alone makes the project nonviable.
• Cost recovery for the design team and their profit margin (a 25% profit margin translates to around 1 in 5 bids being successful).

Wish your daughter all the best from me.

Wow Ian,
I’ve been quoting all wrong for the last ten years.
2 days to cut that out I think is stretching it a bit.

Cheers Matt

[ian]

Hi Matt
It is essentially an exercise in design and delivery.
Bearing in mind that at this point in the project you are only guessing at what the OH&S requirements of the wall owner will be. For example, will you need to "working at height" harnesses, etc.

Looked at in that light, as part of the delivery team what would you as the "manufacturer and installer" have to do?
1. purchase the raw materials -- for 4 sheets of ply I'm guessing you'd use your own truck or van and time.
2. trace the pattern onto the ply -- you have no information as to whether the pattern will be supplied at some weird scale on a single A4 page, or 1:1 on 100+ sheets of A4 sheets or 1:1 on two or three sheets from a wide format printer.
3. you have no specification for the quality of the cut edge required. Are they expecting an edge achievable off a laser cutter or CNC, or will a jig sawn edge sufficient? how much finish sanding will you have to do?
4. how much site work will you need to do -- ladders, scaffolding, scissor lift, fall arrest systems, barriers, etc
5. installation. I'd suggest attaching the ply to the wall using powder driven (e.g. Ramsett) fasteners, but if you have to use plugs and screws and the bricks are hollow?

most of the above are unknowns that could be resolved with some additional information or further work by Cliff's daughter (if her timelines permitted) but at this stage translate to big uncertainties regarding how much of your time will be involved. Which should be reflected in your quote. (I was involved in a project where the uncertainties at the time of tendering translated into almost $1 billion of "risk pricing".)

Primarily, my expectation is that unlike a typical small scale build, you will not own the worksite so will have to dance to someone else's tune regarding work hours, OH&S, etc.

[DaveTTC]

Interesting project, hope you keep us updated on its development whatever the end result.


Dave TTC
The Turning Cowboy

Turning Wood Into Art

[ian]

Chief Cliff

what was the outcome of your daughter's project??

[Chief Tiff]

All the submissions are in for the project so now it’s a waiting game; there are several hundred proposals to go through so it might take a while before a decision is made. First the tutors have to got through the submissions first and determine which they believe best meet the criteria. The winning teams then get to pitch their proposals directly to the company. I asked her for the timeframe, apparently the first round results will be announced sometime between next Monday and next May...

Anyway, at this point it’s only right that I thank everybody for their contributions, Matt and Dave particularly for their offers; thanks heaps fellas