Staining/Ebonising to make timber look like other species?

[fletty]

Hi Fletty, thank you very much for sharing your examples - I really appreciate it, and also for the example of browny-brown Tassie Blackwood. Also that was very interesting info on Camphor Laurel.

My pleasure ‘User’ , I hope it was of use.

fletty

[woodPixel]

This is a great topic.

One other thing to consider are the black arts of those who repair guitars. I watch the StuMac videos here Trade Secrets! | stewmac.com and they are amazing. Some of the methods Dan uses to disguise bashes/holes/repairs are incredible.

This is one to watch! --> (trying to find!!)

and Patching a hole in a 1953 Telecaster | stewmac.com and Coloring new binding to match the old stuff | stewmac.com

[EmaNResU]

Thanks Xanthorrhoeas, that's a lot of great info. I'm learning a lot which I don't think I could have found out otherwise.

Thanks Woodpixel for the StuMac links. I have a special interest in that as I intend to build an electric guitar one day. I've been saying that for a very long time now, had the timber for more years than I'd like to count, it'll be next project after the desk.

[clear out]

Blackwood can be made darker by fuming it with ammonia.
It penetrates in a few mm if left in a sealed container with concentrated ammonia for a few days.
I did a large key for a padlock years ago and it was most effective.
Ive recently done some smaller bits of late, I’ll see if I can dig up some photos.
H.

[EmaNResU]

Thanks H.

Ammonia fuming is something I've been wondering about - seems to be a very different look to Iron Acetate (just watched a video where it turned white oak brown, not grey). Would be great to see how it goes with Tasmanian Blackwood, although given the dimensions of my project, I don't think I could make a fuming tank big enough.

[fletty]

I don't think I could make a fuming tank big enough.

The only time I have done it, I used just a plastic bag. I hung the bag from a tree so that the open end was on the ground. I hung the timber inside the bag and placed the ammonia in a bowl on the ground inside the opening of the bag. The big plus with this method, if you use a clear plastic bag, is that you can see the effect of the ammonia on the timber. The down side of the method is that there is still a circle on the ground where the grass doesn’t grow. I have blamed the dog BUT, not having a dog seems to have created a doubt?

[clear out]

Here’s some pics from the old portfolio.
Stuff I did in a previous life.
The key is about 400mm long.
The legs on the desk and chair are fumed also, the veneer on top is Macasar.
I’d forgotten about these.
H.

[woodPixel]

Neato!

Love the look of the lock and table.

Just looked up Oak Amonia Fuming on Google and it looks quite interesting.

Does it survive a decent sanding?

[Robson Valley]

An acquaintance who carves in France has done a lot of ammonia fuming in carvings done in tannin rich woods.
He says to do all finish sanding (surface shredding) first. Do the fuming last.

He puts a dish of ammonia (not the chlorine sort) in a garbage bag = bin bag together with the wood carving and ties the top shut.
Best done outdoors in the shade.

Some of his carvings shift from the sapwood (tannin poor) to the heart wood (tannin rich) with a surprising contrast in the result.
I'd do this in a minute but we have no tannin rich woods here.

[dubrosa22]

It was very popular in the mid-to-late 19th century in England and Europe to stain the then common Boxwood the colour of the trendy new dark woods (cocuswood, grenadilla, african blackwood) with nitric acid.
I have a mid 19th century English made boxwood flute treated this way. Very nice dark brown/maroon colour and hard wearing.
Here it is beside a contemporaneous unstained boxwood English flute:
IMG_20180412_073322-3456x1944.jpg
V

[clear out]

Neato!

Love the look of the lock and table.

Just looked up Oak Amonia Fuming on Google and it looks quite interesting.

Does it survive a decent sanding?

From memory it isn’t just a surface finish on Oz Blackwood, it goes into it for a few mm.
I remember fine sanding an home made finish on.

The padlock was a large copy of a Jackson 4 lever for a locksmith.
As Jackson was a Tassie company they were all Tas timber even the return springs were Blackwood.
Was a nice commission and about 20 years after I made it he got me to refinish it as the Huon had darkened up as it does.
Desk and chair were just design ideas, made it into Fine WW design book back in the day plus a few local mags. I’d like to do it again and not be a wimp, it should be a big spun aluminium disc mit carbon fibre bits.
Now that computers are a little smaller it might have some appeal for the hipsters out there.
H.

[EmaNResU]

Wow H. That looks amazing. The table and chair are great looking designs (I may be a hipster, maybe). Thanks for the pictures.

[fletty]

My introduction to fuming came via the Arts and Crafts movement, particularly Greene and Greene, and the ammonia fuming of American white oak. I made a couple of pieces and tried to get the same effect with stains but when I had to repair an ammonia-fumed white oak desk, I needed a better colour match and so I experimented with fuming rather than stain. In my case, I put finished pieces in the fuming bag and assembled without any further sanding.

[EmaNResU]

Hi Woodpixel, just thought I'd let you know I've decided to go with veneering after all. I did some cost estimating and the quantity of Walnut I need for the desk was entering the $4,000 zone, with my other prefered option Tassie Blackwood not far behind that.

I've decided to make it with White Birch Ply as the substrate, as the various pine species used in other plywoods have much lower janka hardness ratings than would be suitable for a desk. I think White Birch may also be a bit softer than desirable, but it's at least close to what walnut would have been anyway.

Still not sure what to do about the edging - thinking of either leaving the ply exposed with some rounding, or getting a few boards of walnut to give it a solid wood edge. If I can match those to the veneer, that's not so different to joining boards side by side in a solid setup. I'm just wondering if I do that whether I'd be better laying the veneer over the solid edge, so the seam is visible on the vertical face rather than on the desk top, or if it'd be better to leave the solid board not covered at all by the veneer. That may be a subject for another topic.

[fletty]

Hi Woodpixel, just thought I'd let you know I've decided to go with veneering after all. I did some cost estimating and the quantity of Walnut I need for the desk was entering the $4,000 zone, with my other prefered option Tassie Blackwood not far behind that.

I've decided to make it with White Birch Ply as the substrate, as the various pine species used in other plywoods have much lower janka hardness ratings than would be suitable for a desk. I think White Birch may also be a bit softer than desirable, but it's at least close to what walnut would have been anyway.

Still not sure what to do about the edging - thinking of either leaving the ply exposed with some rounding, or getting a few boards of walnut to give it a solid wood edge. If I can match those to the veneer, that's not so different to joining boards side by side in a solid setup. I'm just wondering if I do that whether I'd be better laying the veneer over the solid edge, so the seam is visible on the vertical face rather than on the desk top, or if it'd be better to leave the solid board not covered at all by the veneer. That may be a subject for another topic.

Hi Ema’, I am stunned with your costings! Over the last few weeks I have been looking at both dark walnut and Tasmanian Blackwood for sale that would suggest that the amount of timber needed for your desk would be much closer to $400 not $4000? Would you be prepared to share your cutting list and/or calculations? Just as examples, last weekend I held a plank of highly figured dark walnut, about 200 x 50 x 2400 for less than $200. Likewise, the Blackwood in the table I posted earlier, cost $340?

fletty