Shellac, maple harp, spray lacquer HELP!

[RichardL]

Hi
Spent a satisfying afternoon in the shed (not) scraping and sanding most of the shellac of a maple harp I'm in the process of finishing.

My problem was that I couldn't get an even colour. Maple being an almost white, dense, hardwood means that any finish colour variation is pretty obvious. I have only used schellac on darker timbers and have never had any trouble before. But this time it looked terrible. Yellow and patchy. The soundboard is 3 mm aircraft birch ply so I'm leaving that as it, coated in shellac, so as not to damage the surface. It is a bit more even in colour and will have to do.

What to do now? I have used the small cans of spray nitrocellulose lacquer on smaller boxes a barometer and that sort of thing with reasonable success. Will this be compatible with shellac? Otherwise my favorite Danish oil idiot-proof finish is also an option and I'll try to keep it off the soundboard.

Apparently Danish oil deadens the sound but I am guessing that is only if applied to the soundboard. I'm new to this musical instrument game!

I'd appreciate some helpfiul tips.

Thanks!!

[outback]

wotabout hard shellac or white shellac?

I dunno diddly squat about musical instruments, but if ya happy to have tried normal shellac, maybe these would be worth a go.

Try this fine purveyor of finishing products.

[RichardL]

Thanks...hadn't thought of white shellac

wotabout hard shellac or white shellac?

I dunno diddly squat about musical instruments, but if ya happy to have tried normal shellac, maybe these would be worth a go.

Try this fine purveyor of finishing products.

[RufflyRustic]

UBeaut's White Shellac is fabulous. I applied it on some boring camphor laurel and suddenly it became nice and interesting Camphor Laurel but didn't change the colour of the cl.

Oh and cleanup the brush with a good quality metho, not turps like I did. :mad: Ended up with a solid brush and me scratching my head wondering what happened. :confused:

One lesson I'll never forget....

cheers
RufflyRustic

[kiwigeo]

Richard,

Check out Luthiers Mercantile International (LMI) or Stewmac.....they have a product called KTM...it's a very good water based finish. I use it on my guitars.

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

Richard,

Shellac should be ok on a soundboard. Dont know what the traditional finishes are for harp soundboards but I wouldnt have any hesitation in using shellac on a guitar soundboard. Its not as durable as laquer but its alot easier to apply and less hazardous to the health.

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

Okay...now that Ive read your posting properly.....

Youve shellaced the soundboard so thats taken care of. The rest of the harp contributes less to the sound than the soundboard so choice of finish for same is less critical. If the rest of the instrument is not likely to cop severe wear and tear Id shellac it. If it is going to cop some abuse then the KTM finish I suggested might be worth considering. If youre set up for laquering then laquer the sucker.

[RichardL]

Thanks folks. I'll try to track down some white shellac. The lacquer available is only the small spray cans so maybe a last resort. Not sure where I'd get KTM in NZ. actually, I don't know where I'll get the shellac yet. Most local hardware shops have only ever heard of painted pine. Not sure that acrylic house paint is the best option!

I gather from another discussion that pretty much anything goes over shellac, danish oil, the lot, without any effect on the shellac. True?

Cheers

Richard

[gatiep]

Richard

Well done on getting your harp this far.
I sprayed mine with two part clear high gloss poly. The next harps will be sprayed with Nitro cellulose lacquer, semi gloss ( 60% gloss ). I have already bought the Mirrotone lac in 4 L tin. It is also available in aerosol cans in Oz, so maybe it will be available in NZ. Google Mirrotone and check if they have an agent accross the ditch.
Shellac will be fine but use the white ( clear ) hard shellac or white shellac. The finish of choice for the soundboard is lacquer but shellac will be OK. The Danish oil will not harm the sound of the harp provided you don't apply it to the soundboard.
I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures of your harp. I have lined up a 34 string ( Regency ) in blackwood next, hopefully it will be finished before the year end and then a 36 string Gothic in Sheoak. How dit you go with the assembly of the harp? Which one are you building? Somehow I recall it is a 34 string......???????????????Take care

[RichardL]

Hi Joe

actually, I haven't made the pillar yet, I though I'd have a crack at finishing the body of the thing - while waiting for some new wood for the pillar as I had a few problems with knots in wrong places, splits in wood etc. Maple is tricky stuff and I thought it wasn't worth compromising and using suspect wood for the final bit of the project. It is the Musicmakers Regency 34 string, same as your new one. Made the neck 5 ply instead of 2 as shown in the plan, and used West system epoxy - what a mess but I can't see it coming apart. Also epoxied on the soundboard a well as the 114 nails. I'm still paranoid that something may go ping! though when strung.

I have tracked down some clear shellac flakes to Carbatec in Auckland. The other local alternative is Bullseye shellac which is pre-made-up but I suspect it is probably years old as few people around these parts would use it I'm guessing - I'll check out the expiry date when I go to town next.

I haven't got access to all the spray gear so shellac is probably the easiest way to get a good finish but I'll check out if those spray cans are available. My limited experience with spray cans is they work well when they are full but the droplet size increases as they empty and the pressure drops so the last 1/4 or so of the can isn't much good.

So, what do you do with 3 or 4 harps - is there a good market for such things? I wondered about making another if I could sell it. I have all the templates/jigs and a few more ideas about how to tackle it now and I'd love to do one in walnut or something similar. I cold justify buying myself a bandsaw if I could sell one or two. Believe it or not, I cut all the bits out on a SCROLL SAW! (broke a couple of blades - it is Maple after all!). Must be mad!

[Paul B]

I think I remember reading that you should use a thin coat of albumin to seal maple prior to finishing in order to avoid the problem you're having. Stradivari used it on his fiddles. Albumin is just egg whites, but there's probably some modern stuff that does the same job if it'd make you feel more comfortable.

I might have it wrong about the reason old Antonio painted his fiddles with egg whites (he most definitly did it though), so you might be better off asking this question over at mimf, there's tons of people over there who've done it all before and are only to happy to help out, plus most of em are yanks who've used lots of maple.

Cheers,

Paul

[RichardL]

Hi Paul


thanks for that. I did post on MIMF and got some good replies. Instument makers are a helpful bunch!! One chap uses pummice and I think you added a comment about albumin if it is the same Paul B.

I wonder in milk proteins may act similarly, the charge on casein may interact with the cellulose fibres. Casein is a very good paper coating. Anyway, I think the blonde shellac will be OK once I get some. I may expeiment with pummice and egg albumin or some other protein product. Just, not on my harp!

Cheers

Richard

[Paul B]

Hi Richard, yes that was me. I was suprised that nobody over there seemed to know about the albumin.

Good luck with the harp, remember to practice all these new ideas on scrap first - could save you a lot of grief.

Cheers,

Paul