Bitcoin, or Bitcon

[bueller]

Totally agree cava, I work in software development and blockchain tech isn’t going anywhere. It’s being adopted in the banking sector, e-commerce and a whole swag of other industries. Bitcoin might seem like a scam but it’s basically become the gold standard when purchasing crypto currencies, until someone else takes that crown it’s here to stay.

[damian]

There is one thing no one is talking about with bitcoin. Sure this last few weeks it's being snapped up by the usual late to the party wannabe speculators, but who was buying it for the last some years since it launched at 10c ?

Criminals.

Bitcoin is great for laundering money. It's virtually untraceable and until the authorities figure out how to counter moving money around the globe undetected demand will remain for it.

Apparently it's been used extensively on the "dark web", whatever that is, to buy drugs guns and other dodgy stuff but I reckon the real traffic is drug traffickers and such wanting to make their profits disappear.

Opinions worth what you paid for them...

[Yanis]

I have no skin in this game, I'm simply curious; are just another armchair Internet punter, or do you hold some financial qualifications?

Neither. I am a geek, nerd, or just plain curious person who accumulates a lot of useless knowledge. I have not bought BC (but my son has) but am now regretting not getting into it in its very early days. I have followed its progress from when no one but extreme nerds knew about it. I know of people who did mine it early on and sold it all. I also know of at least one person who just held onto it and is now (on paper at least) a very wealthy person but who still has has day job.

Right now I consider "investment" in BC to be a mugs game. Equivalent to investing in IT in the 1999 IT sector boom with one significant difference. In 1999 the IT stocks were clearly overvalued and heading for a bust. We are now in completely uncharted waters and what happens next is purely speculative, no one now has anything but raw instinct to fall back on.

But I agree that block chain technology is going nowhere. It is here to stay.

As for the criminal use of block chain currencies, absolutely correct. There is valid use for BC et al and also the dark web, it is not all criminal activity but these are the things exploited by criminals. Policing these things is problematic and is not easy and will not get any easier.

[rrich]

As for the criminal use of block chain currencies, absolutely correct. There is valid use for BC et al and also the dark web, it is not all criminal activity but these are the things exploited by criminals. Policing these things is problematic and is not easy and will not get any easier.

Isn't that why cash was originally invented? To be able to move money around anonymously?

[cava]

Isn't that why cash was originally invented? To be able to move money around anonymously?

Yes. Gold and silver were also used which coincidently, according to the Australian Constitution, is to be used for the payment of debts.

[Yanis]

Isn't that why cash was originally invented? To be able to move money around anonymously?

No. "Cash" or currency was invented to facilitate trade.

[Yanis]

Yes. Gold and silver were also used which coincidently, according to the Australian Constitution, is to be used for the payment of debts.

Common fallacy. It is taking one clause completely out of context.

[Dibbers]

No. "Cash" or currency was invented to facilitate trade.

One could argue that Bitcoin was invented to do the same. One of the benefits (or so i've heard) is that the transfer of bitcoin is instant and no currency conversion is required. So intead of paying a bank x% to convert AUD to USD or waiting 4 days for your money to transfer, bitcoin is instant... this also facilitates trade

I personally don't invest in anything because i have horrible luck with money, but thats my understanding...

[Fuzzie]

It should be called BitLotto. The more punters put in, the bigger the prize pool will be for the winners. The winners will be the ones who sold before the bubble bursts. It's only a matter of time. It has already demonstrated it can rise and fall irrationally in seconds and there's no way to analyze when the fall will come because it's just a global heard emotive thing.

The financial institutions with all their knowledge, acumen and computing power can't even correctly predict the direction international exchange rates are heading viz the AUS to US$ rate. This time last year they were predicting AUS$=45c US, but they have shown that cowboys on their trade desks can manipulate the rate.

FOMO. Are you felling lucky?

[cava]

Common fallacy. It is taking one clause completely out of context.

Thats an interesting concept, and certainly one I have not heard before.

115. States not to coin money. A State shall not coin money, nor make anything but gold and silver coin a legal tender in payment of debts

[ian]

115. States not to coin money. A State shall not coin money, nor make anything but gold and silver coin a legal tender in payment of debts.

Needs to be read in context.
The section is a prohibition on a State (NSW, Vic, WA, SA, etc) running their own State mint or note printing business independently of any Commonwealth mint or note printing unit. (Note that it was around 1964 that the RA Mint was established in Canberra.)
It is also a prohibition of on a State introducing or sanctioning a system of barter for payment of debts, or establishing it's own State currency.
Which leads to some fun thought explorations. Imagine if NSW had settled on super-fine wool as a currency. We would all be walking around with our pockets full of fluff.
"Debt" in this context needs to be read as legally enforceable.

[cava]

All true, however to throw a spanner in the works, I read in Quick and Garran sometime ago that the Commonwealth is (believe it or not) legally also a State.

If I find it, I will post the excerpt.

For those that are not familiar with Quick and Garran, they put out the Annotated Constitution of the Australian Commonwealth back in 1901 and is the word by word explanation of the Constitution which has been used and is accepted in the High Court in constitutional matters.

[damian]

I love the woodwork forum. You start talking about bitcoin and next your discussing the interpretation of the australian constitution.

Bitcoin was developed for altruistic reasons but like many things it's been turned to the dark side. The current speculative bubble is a sideshow. Good for the media, bad for punters, irrelevant for everyone else.

The things that differentiate bitcoin from say the tulip bubble is the fundamental limit on supply and the fundamental demand from criminals. With the price so high some are already turning to the alternatives, but I think that will drive a correction not an annihilation...

At the risk of opening another can of worms I pay far more attention to the property market and see terrible similarities between sydney/melbourne now and the crash of the 1890's, only this time the bubble is so much bigger...IF (!) I am correct there will be many many tears..

[Chris Parks]

I think that all currencies are not unlike Bitcoin when it is all said and done and are based on human sentiment to get it right back to basics. Who says an ounce of gold is worth more one day that the next? The traders who SPECULATE the price based on how they feel international commerce is going from day to day. There is no hard standard for gold and all national currencies have gold as the base of their valuation. Others might argue differently as I am just an observer with no formal education in all of this at all.

[Grumpy John]

Wow, I didn't expect all the different responses from my OP. It has been very educational for me to read all the comments. I have googled some of the terms mentioned such as "blockchain" "crypto currency", and must admit it has added to the confusion, rather than reduced it. I guess I'm a bit of a dinosaur and more of a bricks and mortar type of person. Old school, if you can't hold it in your hand it doesn't exist, except for electricity, don't try and hold that in your hand, DAMHIKT.