Getting a better Energy deal - WHAT A JOKE!

[FenceFurniture]

A boost for electric vehicle charging, in today's news:
Electric car charging stations power up in NSW with NRMA set to add 40 around the state - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[Mr Brush]

Symptomatic of the general disconnect between our illustrious political leaders (all sides) and the public interest.

Individual consumers and organisations have to take it on themselves to sort out the pressing issues, while the pollies continue to bicker between themselves over silly citizenship matters and other petty point scoring.

[ian]

I was in Seattle a few weeks ago with an afternoon to fill so I spent quite a bit of time talking to a Tesla sales rep.

You need to know that on average I drive 1500 km per week. That works out at around 250 km per day, though about once a fortnight the car will travel 500 km in a day. Less often the drive becomes is 800 km before stopping for the night. About 75% of the average daily drive is on freeway at 115 to 120 km/h. Any slower and you are at risk of being run over by a semi. Longer drives have up to 95% freeway travel. On average I fill the 63 litre tank 3 times per week for a total cost of around $160 to $180. For about 4 months of the year, the external air temperature is well blow zero. Batteries, even those in Tesla vehicles, don't like extreme cold.

According to the Tesla rep I spoke to, none of their current, or about to be released, cars can do my daily commute.
The best they can offer is the option of plugging a Tesla into a high capacity charger at the turnaround point for about an hour to guarantee the car has enough juice for the return journey, especially in winter.
(A similar question to a BMW i3 sales person got the response "sorry, this car is not for you!")

For me the take away was that long highway commutes are very tough on battery powered vehicles.
Accordingly, I'm very skeptical about the future of battery powered vehicles in Australia, especially outside urban areas.

[FenceFurniture]

That is an unusually high amount of kms though Ian, at 75-80,000 per year.

Certainly there are a number of things that will have to change for EVs to become widely accepted in Australia, and perhaps we will always have a mixture of EVs and something else (maybe Hydrogen). What I can see happening is that driving a petrol or diesel vehicle will become as restrictive as EVs are now.

We may end up with giant driverless car pools, so to do a long commute might be a few different vehicles (which could be difficult with a load). I don't know what the breakdown of city commute kms verses rural kms is but I suspect city wins by quite a margin (even just using the number of petrol stations as a guide). I would think EVs are clearly aimed at city drivers, at least in the early stages. Overnight charging etc.

Thee will have to be modified solutions for cold climates, of which there are plenty, so the demand will be there.

[Mr Brush]

Well, we generally don't have the low temperature issues, and it is already possible to do Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane using Tesla charging stations:

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/findus#/...name=Australia

Add in the latest NRMA initiative, and the possibilities (even with existing ancient Li-ion battery technology) start to look a lot better in NSW at least. Hopefully this expansion will tie in with wider availability of cheaper Tesla models over the next few years, together with the release of more battery-only vehicles from other established car manufacturers. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

[Dibbers]

I think the biggest problem with the political decision making is there focus on the "Here and now" to ensure re-election.

The problem with that is it doesn't set anyone up for the future, and makes any changes once technology is at a point where it could replace the existing infrastructure expensive and extremely disruptive. The NBN is a prime example.

For everyone against the spend, it was always touted that "we don't need superfast internet, people only use it to watch Netflix", but what it was doing was future-proofing our infrastructure to be able to keep up with advances in technology down the track.

Its the same with energy. While batteries and renewables aren't in a position to totally replace existing power generators, the vast majority of the scientific community agree that it will be in the near future. What Australia are doing is putting all their eggs in the fossil fuel basket and missing out on the potential economic boost of renewables. Research and development and being a supplier of renewable solutions rather than a consumer of one for example... what we need until renewables can replace everything is a blend of supply solutions, with a target of gradually reducing the reliance on non-clean sources over time. Investors won't be jumping up and down to build a new coal plant, because they know that in all likelihood renewables will be more and more reliable before they see an ROI...

Australian politicians are too short sighted for the countries own good. I don't know what needs to change to influence that, i just know something needs to change...

[ian]

That is an unusually high amount of kms though Ian, at 75-80,000 per year.

yes it is. It works out at about six times the average km in Australia. It's also pretty high for here, but not unusual for Alberta.
But it beats what I was doing in AUS before moving to Canada -- about 40,000 per year around half of which was to and from the snow fields at night.
At least here in Canada, most of the long distance stuff is in daylight.

[ian]

Australian politicians are too short sighted for the countries own good. I don't know what needs to change to influence that, i just know something needs to change...

our polies need to agree on stuff other than anti-terror laws and "border security".

But in general, despite what you see in question time, in the main there is a bipartisan approach to most things -- except where the polies see an opportunity to differentiate their parties.

this piece from the ABC The National Energy Guarantee doesn't end the climate wars, but provides rules of engagement - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) is what gives me some hope.

[fenderbelly]

when I lived further up the coast I was renting and with AGL.
I was in the local pub one night and the conversation got round to power prices and discounts.
I sad I was getting 9% discount, another guy said he was getting 12%.Next day I rang AGL and asked for a better deal, got 12% and was quite happy with that.
Then I moved to where I am now. Rang AGL to see they could offer me, was offered 16%. After a year that dropped to 15%.
I rang the only to be told " we don't do 16% any more.
So a couple of weeks ago I got a letter from the Premiers office saying if I switched to origin I would get 18% on supply and usage.

This morning I get a call from AGL asking if I authorized the change, I said I had and the guy asked why, I said because they are
giving me 18% discount, he then said will you stay if I offer you 20%. I said no, he asked why, I said well you could have offered me that before but you didn't. he hung up.

[Bohdan]

The real issue is not the amount of discount but what they are actually charging. They go to a lot of trouble to hide that and even their advertised rates don't match with what they actually finish up charging.

Would you buy anything in a store that only wanted to talk discount but neatly avoided mentioning the actual price?

[FenceFurniture]

The real issue is not the amount of discount but what they are actually charging. They go to a lot of trouble to hide that and even their advertised rates don't match with what they actually finish up charging.

Would you buy anything in a store that only wanted to talk discount but neatly avoided mentioning the actual price?

Yep, it's a bit like the current pop-up stand at the local Coles that has a banner saying "up to" in half-inch high letters "70% off sale" in foot and and a half high letters. The banner looks tired, worn and well used (like, always used). I feel like asking them when they are not on sale, how many people purchase from them? Think I know the answer to both parts of that question. I thought the idea of a sale was "every now and then".


You absolutely have to check the price being charged for energy, and the discount being offered. The easiest way to do that is to use this Fed.Govt website - it's pretty accurate:
https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/

Be aware that you don't have to enter four different bills for four consecutive quarters - you can just tally up the peak and off-peak hours into one bill. The results are the same, and quicker to access.

I have just received my first full quarter lecky bill, and it was 70% of the same period a year ago. We used a little less power (83%) so the rest of the savings is due to the significantly higher discount that I was eventually able to negotiate, even after the high price increases in July.

Interesting to note that our discount is not dependent upon "pay on time", and I didn't realise this until Origin had cocked up the direct debit (and I had to call them again - I was sent a reminder notice). I asked about the discount and late fee being reversed and they said it was just a late fee.

Personally I think the Govt needs to step in and stop the shenanigans of the Retailers. Not everyone has the wherewithal to wade through the minefield of energy prices, and many if not most people are being ripped off, particularly aged people who are no doubt being savaged. It would seem to me that none of the politicians have actually had to spend any time on the phone with energy retailers.

[OldGrain]

Afternoon all....so down my way we have only 1 electricity supplier. When i moved here 18 or so months ago my first bill was $1200 for the quarter! My last bill (Jan) was $490 for the quarter. Numerous calls after each bill received....different answers each time.....from needing a new meter to whatever else they could think of including "you have an industrial building so tariff is justified"! Rates/water/purchase of property are recognised as Residential. Sparky says i don`t need to change meter. I now run Leds throughout entire property - 25 to be exact. There`s just me & my faithful deaf/blind pooch. Mate down the road installed 5Kw solar panel linked to Sanden heat pump two years ago with dedicated floor 'kill' switches. Kitchen/dining - lounge - bedrooms.IE: finished cooking/eating,step on the switch. Finished watching tv/video etc,step on switch.His last bill was $1.25 Credit. Most any one else i`ve spoken to in this time pay on average $150 to $200 per quarter.

[FenceFurniture]

so down my way we have only 1 electricity supplier.

Just to be clear: we have only one supplier here too (Endeavour Energy) because there can only be only supplier. However we have a number of retailers. The supplier sends the meter readers around, and then sends each retailer the readings for their batch of customers, and then the retailers bill the customers.

Are you saying you only have one retailer? If they are charging you higher rates than other people in your area then you should probably invoke the Energy Ombudsman, but the first thing to do is to tell whoever is ripping you off that you are going to talk to the Ombudsman. You may be surprised at the response.

[Sturdee]

Are you saying you only have one retailer?

In Tasmania there is only one retailer for residential properties.

Can I choose my electricity retailer?

Aurora Energy is currently the only electricity retailer servicing homes in Tasmania. While the Tasmanian government introduced Full Retail Competition in 2014, allowing for other retailers to enter the market and compete for customers, no one has yet come to the table.

Peter.

[ian]

Afternoon all....so down my way we have only 1 electricity supplier. When i moved here 18 or so months ago my first bill was $1200 for the quarter! My last bill (Jan) was $490 for the quarter. Numerous calls after each bill received....different answers each time.....from needing a new meter to whatever else they could think of including "you have an industrial building so tariff is justified"! Rates/water/purchase of property are recognised as Residential. Sparky says i don`t need to change meter. I now run Leds throughout entire property - 25 to be exact. There`s just me & my faithful deaf/blind pooch. Mate down the road installed 5Kw solar panel linked to Sanden heat pump two years ago with dedicated floor 'kill' switches. Kitchen/dining - lounge - bedrooms.IE: finished cooking/eating,step on the switch. Finished watching tv/video etc,step on switch.His last bill was $1.25 Credit. Most any one else i`ve spoken to in this time pay on average $150 to $200 per quarter.

sounds to me as though
1. no one is actually reading your meter, the retailer is just estimating your usage based on past (before you became the owner) billing records.
2. you are using electric heating and the place leaks heat like a sieve.