Silky oak reclining chair repair, New please be gentle

[BobBrumby]

Sorry did not take before pics but it was my grandfathers office chair and decided to get it working again. The base was split very close to where they originally jointed the two pieces and I am guessing as least a couple of people have tried in the years, to run a couple of extra screws to stop the wiggling. Anyways I got a few questions If anyone would be kind enough to offer me some help.

1. The wheely recliner base part is steel and used counter sunk screws to attach it to the silky oak seat base, with no allowance for shrinking or expansion. Could this have split the seat base as the timber shrunk?

Still not glued together, except back rest, getting prepped any tips would be greatly appreciated. Its just starting to turn out nice and dont want to duff if up.


Edit: I have added a series of three photos trying to describe one back rest brace idea, i prefer this to the standard 45 degree arrangement on other chairs as it wont clutter up under the arm rests. Here are some photos obviously the brace will be a different piece timber, hopefully silky oak (the chair is also upside down).

[BobBrumby]

Dimensioned? down an old silky oak window to get the timber for the brace and the missing back up right. Silky oak is a nice timber to chisel I must say. Got any idea how to repair the mortice without replacing the top rail?
IMG_0694[1].jpg
IMG_0693[1].jpg

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Hi Bob,

I'm afraid that I find your photos very hard to understand so my comments may be completely off track. The chair appears to have no finish on it - has it been stripped? If so that would help to explain any splits. Do you mean that the boards in the seat have separated? That would not be unusual and would not necessarily be caused by the metal tilt mechanism.

The chair appears to be perhaps 1940s or so - the dowell joints would not have been used in quality furniture from an earlier period. Dowels are not the strongest joint so do tend to come apart with time. The original adhesive was probably hide glue. In Brisbane's climate where it is hot and humid in summer but dry in winter the hide glue can dry out and split. The best adhesive to use is new hide glue as it will bond to the original and give good service for many years. If you do not have a glue pot you could use Titebond liquid hide glue.

If I was repairing that split-out top rail I would chisel out a regular shaped area of the top rail and cut a slice of silky oak to let in. Once it is glued in you can hand plane it smooth if it is a little fat. Once sanded and finished it would look quite professional. Because you would be gluing to an area that had hide glue originally it would be best to use hide glue for the repair.

Good luck.

David

[BobBrumby]

Thanks David no your comments are right on the money, the glue when sanded went soft and kind of clumped I would guess hide glue from what I read on it. Sorry forgot to mention I already doweled and glued the base back together, it was in two peices. I was just trying to give an indication of how loosy goosey this old 'chair' was. It had not been sat on for a good 10 years at my mothers house while she was hoping some day it might get repaired.

I glued the base with sikabond techgrip polyurathane all be it hopefully it goes good. All the mortices and tenons have been scraped clean with a chisel, so am I better off using a stronger glue? As to it being stripped I have been sanding it as i go but the chair may have never had a finish on it or a very light one.

That picture with the dowels hanging out and the steel guides clamped on is the repair I made for the holes that where left from removing the snapped back rest to base screws. I needed the guides so I could resquare the joint which had become rounded from the back rest rocking.

Rob

[BobBrumby]

Thanks David, sorry I forgot to mention I already doweled and glued the base back together with sikabond teckgrip polyurathane foaming glue. I was really just trying to give give indication of how bad this old 'chair' was. It probably has not been sit on in over 10 years at my mothers place with her hoping that some day someone would repair it. My uncle used to own and had a go at repairing but they did not last long, some joints had 4mm of glue in the shoulder of the joint. All joints have now been scraped back to fresh timber. Can a modern stronger glue be used instead?

In the photo with the dowels with the steel clamped on, the dowels are a repair I made to the hole I was left after extracting the snapped brack rest to base screw. I used the guides to resquare the joint that had become rounded from rocking over the years. This lead to the idea that the brack rest needed a brace. My idea was to glue and screw that newly made piece to the back rest hopefully laminating the back rest into the base.

As for the finish it was either raw or very light as it sands back very quickly, the base is also slightly cupped but this may be to make it more comfortable to sit in or possibly warp?

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Hi Rob,

The chair looks pretty 'rustic' so may be a 'home made' job (maybe made by your Grandfather?). I have found that most modern adhesives do not work well with old furniture and do not bond well with traces of hide glue. However, I have not tried polyurethane adhesives with them. The polyurethane adhesives are waterproof but not structural adhesives as far as I know, so maybe not the best choice for structural strength. I find the polyurethanes are great for veneering new items (such as the tops and bases of boxes) but do not have a valid role in restoring old furniture. Likewise, PVA adhesives are brilliant for a lot of new work on new timber but are absolute rubbish for repairing old joints that have traces of hide glue in them.

As to using a stronger glue, well that depends to some extent on whether it really is stronger. Just because it is modern does not mean it is better (see comments about polyurethane above). If I am repairing a shattered piece of timber in an old bit of furniture I may use PVA or epoxy. But, never for an old joint that had hide glue on it. I own some Australian furniture that is 200 years old. It is strong - and it was made with hide glue. One of the great things about hide glue is that it is reversible (just add hot water) but none-the-less can last for hundreds of years. There are no 'modern' adhesives that have been proven over the same time scale.

This really depends on the value of the chair to you and whether you want it to become an antique, passed down through the generations. If you do then I strongly recommend hide glue. If you don't care about that and just want to make your mother happy and the chair look Ok then use whatever.

In our world we often think that 'new' is better, when it is not. As an example, I once owned a lovely three-storey sandstone house. The original mortar was a soft mix of sand and lime with little or no cement. In the 1950's cement was king - strength was all. So, people raked out the soft mortar and pointed up the stones with cement-rich mortar. Strong! But a disaster because, when the stone got wet in the rain the water could not get out of the joints as it does with soft lime mortar. That meant that the stone itself disintegrated near the hard new mortar, doing irrepairable damage to the beautiful stone.

So - 'modern' new and strong are sometimes the worst possible thing that you can do. Gently, gently, reversible repairs are the order of the day for old furniture (and buildings).

[BobBrumby]

I have decided to get some liquid hide glue, If somethings worth doing its worth doing right. I have no history on the chair other that it was purchased near to a small town called Tambo sometime in the 1940s-1950s.

Chopped out a block to repair to repair the damage in the back rest.
IMG_0696[1].jpgIMG_0697[1].jpg

[Xanthorrhoeas]

That looks a very neat repair - looking good.

Given its purchase history and construction it seems very possible that the chair was made in the 1940s or 50s (though it could be 30s, probably not earlier) but it is difficult to date rustic and provincial furniture. There was a lot of Northern Silky Oak (Cardwellia sublimis) in use early 1900s to mid 1900s. The timber would have been cut further north possibly on the Atherton Tableland or elsewhere in the wet tropics.

[BobBrumby]

That looks a very neat repair - looking good.

Thank you, my brother is a chippie and he taught me the stanley knife before you chisel trick. I did a mock up of how i am planing to glue the base to the seat back to the base with my extra support, care to share any wisdom? I have laid out the screws rougly where I am planning to put them and there will be another two going through the center of the seat back up rights.
IMG_0698[1].jpgIMG_0699[1].jpgIMG_0700[1].jpg

I got impatient and decided to finish the base, waiting for monday to get some glue and all. This is machine sanded to 120 then by hand to 400 and 3 coats of 3 part oil (pail boil linseed, tung and linseed oil i believe).
IMG_0701[1].jpg

[Xanthorrhoeas]

I wish for but I do not claim wisdom. The more that I learn the more that I realise I have to learn.

The base looks good, lovely rich colour.

Those screws look far too aggressive to me. The bugle-head self-tappers can really split timber and certainly do not look like they belong in an old piece of furniture. I have a collection of old slot-head wood screws that I use for old repairs (though I lost most of mine in the 2011 floods - having a workshop below flood level didn't work out well for me) and that style would be appropriate for the chair if you have some or can find some. Whatever you do use make sure that you pre-drill to avoid splits. it is worthwhile following through on such details for a high-quality job.

[Blackout]

HI Bob,
Enjoying your posts. With the base was that the natural colour it came to with the oil or did you add some stain? If so, what colour stain?
Cheers,
Nick

[BobBrumby]

With the base was that the natural colour it came to with the oil or did you add some stain? If so, what colour stain?

No stain at all, I used a 3 part oil my father makes, its 1/3 Pail Boiled Linseed, 1/3 Linseed and 1/3 tung oil, applied with cotton rag wadded up a 'mouse?'.


How long does titebond hide glue take to dry? Some glue I applied 24 hours ago is still tacky on the outsides of the joint. I also did a test rub joint with two off cuts, after 10 hours the off cuts still are not glued and can slide against each over.

Edit: the repaired inlay for the backrest seems to be glued in well and i have sanded it flat, funny how a crack in the lower rail I glued at the same time was still tacky. Guess something to do with the 75% humidity Brisbane had yesterday. Also glued a chip in so the shuolder of the arm rest mortice so that part of the joint had something to rest on.
IMG_0707[1].jpgIMG_0706[1].jpg

Do you apply hide glue to just one surface of a joint like you do with other wood glues?

[BobBrumby]

Screwed and glued six ways from sunday

IMG_0708[1].jpg

[BobBrumby]

Some more progress, mocked up the hand rests and set about scribing the joints a bit tighter
IMG_0711[1].jpgIMG_0712[1].jpgIMG_0713[1].jpg
I am liking the hide glue, as when you sand it hides your crappy joints as its still a bit sticky and takes up the sawdust.

Sorry about the unperiod coach screws in advance...

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Hi Bob,

I am currently an infrequent forums visitor for various reasons, hence the slow reply. Hide glue is not a good gap-filling glue, so when the joins are not tight it can stay sticky for quite a while. In a tight joint it takes and holds quickly. in fact, the quick grab and hold of hide glue has been given by furniture historians as the reason that 19 century furniture manufacturers could produce so much furniture even with all hand tools. However, squeeze out can stay sticky for a very long time and can peel off when dry, so it is quite unlike modern adhesives.