Censorship on this Forum

[Munga]

I am definately not a prude not a dab hand with a pen and my use of the proper english is not what it should be but that is my fault for not attending school as long as I should have, catch me in the shed when something goes wrong or when the stock wont do what their supposed to and I can beat any bullocky in descriptive language. When ladies or children are around you wont hear any of this and that's the way I think it should be.

One only has to stand outside a shopping center or school and listen to the kids (particularly the girls) to hear what a downslide our society is taking, I drive a school bus and the kids now know don't use that language on the bus also if they put a tape or CD on with that sort of language in it I'll throw it out the window and not one kid complains, if a new kid gets on the others bring him/her into line very quickly.

We constantly hear complaints about kids leaving school unable to read, write, spell and their maths leaves alot to be desired (Current Affair just recently), but their langauge is very colourful. I think if schools spent more time on the three R's, less on social issues and brought back censorship our future generation will be far better off. I have listened to a teacher tell a grade 9 student to shut the f--- up and he's a f---ing idiot, what a teacher what hope our kids.

OK give me as flogging but thats my rant and rave keep up the censoring as it is now.

Cheers Arch.

[JDarvall]

Arch,,,,,I think you've got a strong point.

Something very wrong in young kids swearing to that extent. Quite vulgar really.

I was working in the shed one day and this young kid pulls up on his bike....maybe 7 years old..... screams out to his mates, right in front of me, ' Hey, ya f*** head !! , wait up ! ,,,,,don't you want a smoke !! ' ....looks around at me with this defiant look on his face, to see my reaction, with a fag dangling out of his mouth.......Then took off.

7 years old. ....... I swear on occation, but usually only when I have an accident, like dropping a hammer on my foot,,,,,,,but growing up, I was never like that...very few kids were like that. Now they seem to be everywhere. I really didn't start feel comfortable swearing until I was 18, and even then only with my mates.

[MICKYG]

Fellow woodies,

Without the censorship or a form of control on this forum it would be such that most would not bother clicking on to have a look and maybe add a comment or an idea or two. Its just as easy to type in something acceptable to everyone as it is to carry with a load of #%@T. This particular forum it is one of the best around, and thats not just happened it has been nurtured together with commonsense approach and a modicum of censorship by moderators.

My opinion is leave the $#%@ out of it and lets all enjoy what has been provided for our use and education if you like. There is not one who would frequent this forum who did not learn somthing or a new approach to a problem from the postings contained here. D

I do not believe we should hide behind a keyboard in order to cut the legs of some other poor bas$@#d who may have got it wrong. Most people swear or get riled up at some time but this is not the place to air or demonstrate this, whats the point in typing in something which gives that impression ? That is my few pennys worth.

Regards Mike.

[DPB]

Swearing Imposes a Personal Penalty It gives a bad impression It makes you unpleasant to be with It endangers your relationships It's a tool for whiners and complainers It reduces respect people have for you It shows you don't have control It's a sign of a bad attitude It discloses a lack of character It's immature It reflects ignorance It sets a bad example Swearing is Bad for Society It contributes to the decline of civility It represents the dumbing down of Australia It offends more people than you think It makes others uncomfortable It is disrespectful of others It turns discussions into arguments It can be a sign of hostility It can lead to violence Swearing corrupts the English language It's abrasive, lazy language It doesn't communicate clearly It neglects more meaningful words It lacks imagination It has lost its effectiveness

[Harry72]

In the ol'days woodworkers were considered gentlemen... gentlemen dont swear in front of women and children!
Im not against the use of swear words and use them myself regularly in everyday life, there is a place and time that is quite OK for this to happen... this forum is not one of them.
Its simple really its called manners and respect, some people find it hard to grasp some dont... do you still open the gate for SWMBO?

[Iain]

I swore at a female social worker once, she told me I shouldn't swear in front of a lady, my response was that I don't and I didn't.
As for Neils Wax stix, they are thots made from shi, which is part of his secret process.

[JackoH]

I wrote this some time ago and put it into cold storage. I think it is probably an apt time to bring it out, dust it off, and post it on this forum.
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I was browsing through various topics which have come up from time to time in the forums (should that be fora?) on this BB, and I came across the one on swearing and the English language etc.
This topic, opened a ‘whole new Pandora’s box of worms’ to quote a well known radio personality.
On TV swearing is beeped out before 8-30pm. Yet to any half intelligent being over the age of about six years it is perfectly obvious what the character said. After 8-30pm when all the impressionable young things have gone to bed, (as if!) anything goes. If you doubt the swearing ability of the younger generation just travel on public transport in Melbourne at school finishing time and listen to the language, guaranteed to shock any one. You may even learn some new words.
‘Bugger’ has become an accepted, even comical word, mainly through the recent efforts of the advertisers of Toyota products. The derivation of ‘bugger’ is as bad, if not worse than any other profanity. On the radio ‘bulltish’ and ‘carp’ are regularly used as replacements. In the print medium words usually appear with only the first and last letters, dashes taking the place of the missing letters e.g. s- - t or f - - k. As if anyone with half a brain could not fill in the empty spaces!
Many of these ‘swear words’ are derived from old Anglo-Saxon language and were in common usage down through the ages. Just read the Bible or Chaucer, and later Shakespeare.
The same double standard seems to be creeping onto this BB. Some time ago, I posted ‘Wooden tit’on the joke forum. A couple of days later I noticed that it had been censored and now read ’Wooden’t’ it. (Actually, I think the second one is better!)
At the same time our Kiwi friends are being slandered time and again in another forum, by the old ‘sheep’ jokes in a way which, in my humble opinion is way over the top. As for the posts on this board about the poor old Americans, the less said the better. There are plenty of other examples of intolerance, bigotry, and insensitivity.
I claim to have a sense of humour as good as the next man’s, and would be the first to agree that most of us are only trying to be funny. But ladies and gentlemen, enough is enough.
However I guess that in the final analysis this is Neil’s BB and he and his moderators, also have varied opinions, and as they have the last word can do with it what they like!
As I can already feel the righteous indignation that this post will engender, I apologise in advance to any one who feels offended. This is not a personal attack on any one in particular but rather a cry of anguish and criticism directed at the times we live in! So please accept it in the spirit in which it was meant. I know, I’m beginning to sound like my father and his father before him. But I really do wonder if we are rushing headlong down the slippery slope to oblivion.
There, I feel a lot better now!

[Bodgy]

Again, I couldn't let this one go by.

Many of you have mentioned 'protecting' ladies from bad language. Isn't that presumptious and infers that the 'little lady' needs your protection and in some way is inferior? Try telling that to most women, particluarly those under 40! You'd come away bleeding.

[Daddles]

Oh dear, swearing is a sign of ignorance, lack of imagination, etc.
These sorts of statements annoy me, because they are wrong. Simply chucking around words commonly accepted as swear words does indeed show a lack of imagination and a lack of care for the written or spoken word, a lack of care for what you are expressing. That can be through ignorance and sometimes is.

However, were you aware that most of our swear words were in common useage in times past, but were ostracised by the church or political leaders trying to exert control by destroying the old language? (sound familiar? we did the same to the aboriginees). The reason most of our swear words originate from the anglo saxon is because the normans, after their conquest of England, attempted to reinforce their control by destroying the old language. Interesting eh?

But despite the history of censorship (and it always comes down to trying to control the expression of someone else), at the benign level it is employed on this forum, it can be useful. As employed here, the 'censorship' (a poor term used only because it is the one that has been employed through this thread) demands that posters on this forum show a bit of thought about what they write. No, not finding fancy ways around the swear filter, but by expressing what they mean in colourful and powerful ways without resorting to swear words. On the other hand, it is still possible to swear but to do so intelligently and for emphasis.

A fluent swearer is not someone who can offend for five minutes without repeating himself ... or just by constantly repeating two or three favourites. A fluent swearer is someone who understands the empahasis a well placed profanity can add to a phrase and uses it for that purpose alone - to add a particular emphasis. When words are used correctly, they can not be simply replaced with something else - this is why you will find swear words in my writing, but not many. Words NEVER work in isolation - there are ties and energy flows that tie every word to its neighbours, sentences to theirs, paragraphs to theirs. In a well written piece of prose, changing one word can result in changing up to an entire page - believe me, I've sweated blood doing just that.

The true test of swearing, like all other tests of writing and the spoken word, is invisibility. You should not be able to 'see' the word - it should not stand out from the rest. Its effect should be there, because if that effect is not, the word is not needed and should be deleted. However, you should not be aware of the word itself.

Much of the swearing that occurs, and nearly all of it by young people and by prolific swearers, fails the above test and is just poor use of language. However, were you to look at the use of adverbs, you will find greater abuse. Were you to look at the use of cliches, you would find greater abuse. And so on, apart from a few individuals who really need to have their vocal chords paralysed for a period.

mate, you are doing a good job and while I have, on occasion, felt the blade your axe, you've invariably been right. I love the freedom in this forum and wouldn't like to see it lost because because some individuals abused it with resulting restrictions. I can understand the frustration of being moderated when you didn't think you needed it, but we've got a big paddock to play in here - let's just accept the fences that are there and live within them. I certainly plan to.

Cheers
Richard

[Iain]

Thankyou Richard, one of the reasons I find Eddie Murphy's movies a bit hard to swallow, the constant use of certain words I find objectionable.
However, another Harrison Ford series of adventure movies used one word in one movie, S**t, and I thought it was appropriate in the scene in question.
Whichs shows that entertainment can be provided without obscenities.
And I might add, being pure myself, has never ever had to use his axe

[Bodgy]

Maybe to illustrate one of Daddles points. I hope it is in context Richard, great contribution, apologies if I've mis-interpreted you.

Phrases make up part of our beautiful language. Consider 'a kick in the ***' beautifully expressive, rolls off the tongue, delivers a solid meaning, kick in the buttocks, bottom, behind, gluteous maximus - not the same.
"who gives a flying ***', a flying rut, episode of intimacy, coitus? No.

I agree that over use and brain dead repetitive use of these words is offensive and boring. Save them to make a point, to show passion, to shock etc.

As previously stated, read Shakespeare, greatest playwrite ever.

Another point I was making, was my dislike of filling in the words with *** to escape the axe. We all know what is meant, especially the kids. This seems so coy and childish, rather like curtains for piano legs. How about we go the Nixon route - expletive deleted. Expleded for short.

Expleded Hot Wax?

[Sturdee]

Another point I was making, was my dislike of filling in the words with *** to escape the axe. We all know what is meant, especially the kids. This seems so coy and childish, rather like curtains for piano legs.

I agree with that point, it is childish and it is overdone. This puerile attempt to beat the swear filter is getting more and more annoying and if not checked will drive people away from this board.


As for the examples "a kick in the ***" and "who gives a flying ***" can easily be replaced with " a kick up the bum " and " who gives a damm " none of which would offend.


I support in his liberal attitude of enforcing the rules to make the board pleasant for all. This IMO is not censorship, for our ideas are not censored, but an enforcement of an acceptable standard of debate.


Peter.

[Clinton1]

Well said Peter.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I agree with Richard (daddles), to an extent.

My ol' gramps, a crusty ol' codger, could cuss up a blue streak. When things went wrong he could make a bullocky blush. But I can't say that I remember his ever using any four-letter words in his tirades, just plain english. I'm not saying he didn't use 'em, if he did they blended in with, and were concealed by, the content of what he was saying.

It seems to be a lost art nowadays; I blame hollywood.

I tell a lie; he was never one for fancy words and he always called what went into the pan sh*t. It wasn't a word he used for swearing though; to him 'twas a simple noun. [shrug]

[echnidna]

Maybe this forum is approaching the point in time where rough language will be on another password protected area to the general woodworking areas.