Intergrain Ultrafloor Pro

[SPF]

Hi Everyone,
Just thought I'd share some initial experiences with Intergrain Ultrafloor Pro (water based 2 Pack Poly).

I am making a vanity unit out of mixed Australian hardwood and needed a waterproof coating to minimise moisture ingress. I have used a few 2 pack paints for various purposes but they are generally high maintenance and require a lot of set up to apply - particularly by spray because they need a booth/air fed respirator to deal with the Isocyanates.

After calling Dulux about another product they said that none of their brands had a 1 pack poly that would resist sitting water, and eventually all would peel. I asked if they had any 2 pack products without Iso and they said that Intergrain Endure would be suitable. After making queries at more than 10 retailers/wholesalers for this product, I gave up trying to purchase it.

While in Bunnies, I saw that they had the Intergrain Ultrafloor Pro and all of the specifications appeared to be exactly the same as the Endure product. What I learned after buying it was that it has the following ingredients in Part B:
Hexamethylene diisocyanate homopolymer.
Dipropylene glycol dimethyl ether.
Hexamethylene-1.6-diisocyanate.

After looking at various resources for the Endure product, there does not seem to be an MSDS for the Part B of that product, so I cannot work out if the Dulux people were misleading me about it not having any iso in it. So, be warned, you need all the usual 2 Pack safety equipment for the Ultrafloor Pro product, despite it being water based and being freely available (although costly) at Bunnies. I note that there is absolutely no warnings on the labels about the health hazards associated with part B either - hopeless!

With the above said, the paint is easy to mix, apply and to sand between coats. It does take some getting used to, and I have had to do more sanding than I would have liked to overcome some mistakes that I made. I have used the satin and it brings out the colour of the timber really well and the first couple of coats maintained the texture of the timber. I would have stopped there if I wasn't so concerned about waterproofing. Unfortunately the third coat has started to get a bit of a plastic look about it, but the amount of gloss is exactly what I was after.

As the product is a floor paint it levels out reasonably well, but doesn't have great surface tension, so you can end up with uneven thickness if you touch down the brush in the middle of the work, or you don't have even distribution on your roller. It does flatten out as it dries, but the finish remains affected by varying coat thickness. The other problem with this floor paint is it drips badly if applied too thick on any vertical surfaces. Seriously, you need lots of thin coats to avoid spending too much time with sand paper in your hands, wearing out your nitrile gloves.

I have only tried the product using a brush, and mohair roller. I haven't tried spraying it yet, and probably won't for this project. The brush is slow work but gets equally good results as the roller.

If you are going to sand, it sands easily from 3 hours to 4 hours after application, and then starts to harden and takes a lot more work thereafter.

I hope the info above is useful.

I'll post some pictures once the last coat goes on, which should be tomorrow.

[Arron]

OK, so it's expensive, has poor documentation, indifference to safety, looks plasticy, poor self-levelling, poor on vertical surfaces, steepish learning curve and slow to apply.

That's good to know as I will have two rooms to do soon.

Cheers
Arron

[SPF]

Aaron,
Pretty much.

To add to this I have now had the misfortune of trying to finish the project and get a smooth imperfection free finish. On the third coat, my roller seamed to self destruct and left mohair all through the surface, and because the paint gels so quickly, I couldn't get all the fibers out in time. So I sanded this back until the fibers released.

Then on the fourth coat the paint just seemed to shed off the previous, sanded coat. So, I had to continually re-roll the finish to stop it slumping and dripping. I am now left with a sub-standard finish that I can either just accept or sand back to timber and start again. I haven't decided how much I hate the finish yet, or if I'll sand it back. With this in mind, if you decide to use this product I have the following suggestions:
1. Don't use it on anything but horizontal(ish) surfaces.
2. 2 coats looks great (bright, brings out the grain, gives good contrast and has a consistent sheen).
3. from 3rd coat plus, it looks worse each coat.
4. 2 coats won't give a good pinhole free coating (see comment below regarding sealer).
5. It will give a white water affected look on some grains. I have tried using it now on a piece of PNG rosewood, and there is one piece of grain that looks like the paint just won't stick to it from one angle, but then from another angle it looks fine. My best guess is that the paint has penetrated the grain from one angle, but has not from others. I vacuumed, washed with metho, vacuumed again and rewashed, so there should not have been any dust in the grain.
6. On another piece of rosewood, I tried using the Intergrain Ultraseal product as a first coat. This has prevented the issue in point 5 above. It has also given even better contrast in the grain. Unfortunately, it has not prevented pinholes from forming in the first coat of the Ultrafloor Pro, I'll add another coat in the next couple of days and see how it looks.
7. The paint works as a very effective glue. Don't rest a wet work piece against anything other than grease proof paper - it won't come off without taking a piece of the weaker material with it.
8. Clean up is an SOB. I was really looking forward to not having to clean up with thinners, acetone, and caustic. The problem is that the paint coats anything and then sets/partially sets, so you end up with a fine clear film on the brush, pot, roller and anything else that you have used. If the paint has partially set it will not wash off with water and the resultant film is really annoying. My suggestion is to use disposable cups/brushes/rollers and just throw it all out after each coat. I WOULD NOT PUT THIS PRODUCT IN A SPRAY GUN - you would never get all the dried film out of it.
9. If mixing small quantities use a teaspoon to measure out Part B as this prevents a lot of spillage (it comes in a can like those used for solvent based stain). You could also use a catalyst syringe/eyedropper, but I didn't have any left in my workshop.
10. If working on anything other than a flat surface (not recommended), then make sure that there are no supports under it that can be dripped onto as this will glue the work piece to the support (I know this is basic, but I got caught out when a work piece slipped off it's support and touched down on one corner).

[SPF]

Sorry this has taken so long - too busy using tools.

Unfortunately, it turns out the the new phone has a terrible camera, so the shots below aren't great to show the difference in the clarity of the film.
The image below is with two coats:
s_20161115_155120x.jpg
The image below is with three coats:
s_20161115_155206x.jpg
I hope it is evident that there is a loss of brightness and contrast in the grain of the timber once you put 3 coats on.

Here is the finished unit (4 coats):
s_20161224_101349.jpg

On the plus side for this clear finish, this unit has already had a hard life and has been wet, wiped down with a range of solvents, had tools dropped on it and the finish has no sign of damage.

[SPF]

As a follow up, here is a picture that shows the wash out in colour caused by 3 coats as opposed to 1 or 2. The closest handle has 3 coats, the one inside has 1 with a sealer coat underneath it. Its not the sheen that is washing out the colour.

I'm going to see how the handle with one coat wears and if it seems okay, I'm going to sand the other one back and recoat it.

The finish on the rest of the doors is Cabothane exterior clear (matte) which looks great IMHO. The problem is that it is soft and is affected by water and acids, so isn't suitable for handles.
door.jpg

[hauscare]

Hi Everyone, my experience of this product is something else altogether.

The stuff does not 'set' I did it at an appropriate temperature and application conditions mixed it I ended up with strange flecks throughout from the hardener, no problem call Dulux, they say its ok, strange, but I continue.

I finish the job and after 3 weeks call them to complain, it marks with a slight fingernail pressure, they instruct me to wait longer, 12 weeks later same problem except it also stains beyond belief and the scratches!!!

No good! I did this application correctly used a hummel machine sanded lightly between coats, spent an age perfecting etc. I don't think I can resand these floors again because they are structural and this is the third time they've been done, so I am stuck with this terrible product!!

My thoughts is there is something wrong with the product that the part A or part B shouldn't have still been on the shelves, but who knows!!

I'll probably have to end up with an overlay floor (on a million dollar QLDer), ridiculous!

Anthony

Hi Everyone,
Just thought I'd share some initial experiences with Intergrain Ultrafloor Pro (water based 2 Pack Poly).

I am making a vanity unit out of mixed Australian hardwood and needed a waterproof coating to minimise moisture ingress. I have used a few 2 pack paints for various purposes but they are generally high maintenance and require a lot of set up to apply - particularly by spray because they need a booth/air fed respirator to deal with the Isocyanates.

After calling Dulux about another product they said that none of their brands had a 1 pack poly that would resist sitting water, and eventually all would peel. I asked if they had any 2 pack products without Iso and they said that Intergrain Endure would be suitable. After making queries at more than 10 retailers/wholesalers for this product, I gave up trying to purchase it.

While in Bunnies, I saw that they had the Intergrain Ultrafloor Pro and all of the specifications appeared to be exactly the same as the Endure product. What I learned after buying it was that it has the following ingredients in Part B:
Hexamethylene diisocyanate homopolymer.
Dipropylene glycol dimethyl ether.
Hexamethylene-1.6-diisocyanate.

After looking at various resources for the Endure product, there does not seem to be an MSDS for the Part B of that product, so I cannot work out if the Dulux people were misleading me about it not having any iso in it. So, be warned, you need all the usual 2 Pack safety equipment for the Ultrafloor Pro product, despite it being water based and being freely available (although costly) at Bunnies. I note that there is absolutely no warnings on the labels about the health hazards associated with part B either - hopeless!

With the above said, the paint is easy to mix, apply and to sand between coats. It does take some getting used to, and I have had to do more sanding than I would have liked to overcome some mistakes that I made. I have used the satin and it brings out the colour of the timber really well and the first couple of coats maintained the texture of the timber. I would have stopped there if I wasn't so concerned about waterproofing. Unfortunately the third coat has started to get a bit of a plastic look about it, but the amount of gloss is exactly what I was after.

As the product is a floor paint it levels out reasonably well, but doesn't have great surface tension, so you can end up with uneven thickness if you touch down the brush in the middle of the work, or you don't have even distribution on your roller. It does flatten out as it dries, but the finish remains affected by varying coat thickness. The other problem with this floor paint is it drips badly if applied too thick on any vertical surfaces. Seriously, you need lots of thin coats to avoid spending too much time with sand paper in your hands, wearing out your nitrile gloves.

I have only tried the product using a brush, and mohair roller. I haven't tried spraying it yet, and probably won't for this project. The brush is slow work but gets equally good results as the roller.

If you are going to sand, it sands easily from 3 hours to 4 hours after application, and then starts to harden and takes a lot more work thereafter.

I hope the info above is useful.

I'll post some pictures once the last coat goes on, which should be tomorrow.

[ian]

apart from apparently getting the brush off from Dulux, I have some questions for you

how old was the product -- i.e. was it past its shelf life?

did you mix it in the right ratio and was it by volume or weight -- this is easy to get wrong. The usual tollerance is less than 10%.
and it's too easy to measure the proportions by volume when you should be measuring by weight, or to measure 1 unit of part B when you should be measuring one unit of part A.


can't comment on the flecks, but what you describe corresponds with either the wrong mixing ratios or inadequate mixing or both

[SPF]

Hi Everyone, my experience of this product is something else altogether.

The stuff does not 'set' I did it at an appropriate temperature and application conditions mixed it I ended up with strange flecks throughout from the hardener, no problem call Dulux, they say its ok, strange, but I continue.

I finish the job and after 3 weeks call them to complain, it marks with a slight fingernail pressure, they instruct me to wait longer, 12 weeks later same problem except it also stains beyond belief and the scratches!!!

No good! I did this application correctly used a hummel machine sanded lightly between coats, spent an age perfecting etc. I don't think I can resand these floors again because they are structural and this is the third time they've been done, so I am stuck with this terrible product!!

My thoughts is there is something wrong with the product that the part A or part B shouldn't have still been on the shelves, but who knows!!

I'll probably have to end up with an overlay floor (on a million dollar QLDer), ridiculous!

Anthony

Anthony sorry to hear of your poor experience with this product also.
Aside from you confirming your mixing ratio as mentioned by Ian, there is a real chance that there is a problem with either, or both, of Part A and Part B.

If you leave the lid off the small can (which IIRC is Part A) for an extended period of time, differential evaporation can cause the constituent ingredients to remain at different ratios and give poor performance. Further, if you leave it open for an extended period, then the volume will decrease and you may not have enough part A to set the mix as noted by Ian.

When using this product I noted that Part B (the milky liquid in the large can) would set without adding Part A. I have a number of measuring cups with a very thin clear coating of part B on it and it is soft and takes on stains as you mentioned.

The well mixed and cured finish on my vanity unit is very water resistant and has stood up to abrasion, impact, chemical (mild) attack and has not discoloured or become stained. It is not perfect as noted above, but I am not having the problems that you described.

I know that you probably don't want to consider this (and only do so if Dulux doesn't look after you) but I have found on one of my test pieces that the finish is not resistant to attack from prolonged exposure to mineral turpentine, and if left on the surface for a couple of hours will lift the finish off the timber below it. It will probably be cheaper, easier and less toxic to put another floor over the top as you suggested rather than try this on the whole floor though.