How do I eliminate persistant brush marks in Wattyl water based Estapol ?

[harry wall]

Update, again, again.
I tried three different techniques and all with the same 25mm synthetic bristle brush and all with the same Estapol which had about 5% Floetrol in it. Humidity about 65%, temperature 21 degrees Celsius.
One: two coats, light sand after first, very thin coats.
Two: two coats, light sand after first, thick as possible coats
Three: two coats, light sand after first, thick coats but with the Estapol thinned with about 30% water.
Result: all had brush marks. Very fine brush marks were on the piece with very thin coats of Estapol. Wide shallow brush marks on the test piece with "thick as possible coats".
The best result, but still with the odd brush mark, was the test piece with 30% water thinning the Estapol. (The technical data sheet says to thin the product with up to 5% water.) It seems the product is trying to set flat because a lot of the brush marks even out but it's just not perfect. And I think it should be. Every other paint/varnish I have ever used ends up with a perfect result.
Conclusion? I have no idea. Maybe I'll try thinning with 30% water and then add 20% Floetrol.
Does anyone else have some bright suggestions ? .... apart from throwing this product in the bin!

[Chris Parks]

Get onto Wattyl and ask for a rep to call on you if possible.

[harry wall]

Yes, I spoke with a Wattyl technical guy today. It appears I'm doing everything correctly. He didn't comment on the Floetrol though but I can't see that making a difference - only an improvement since I had similar brush marks without the Floetrol.

[nrb]

Please try a roller,it was the way I overcome this problem

[harry wall]

Yes thanks for the reminder NRB. I'll try a foam roller although it must be challenging to ensure you don't get any bubbles.
Which brand do you use that works?

[Christos]

Oh my. I can feel your frustration in your previous post.

[nrb]

You need to apply a generous coat then any bubles smooth out,once you have applied it don't work over too much
I Got the rollers from bunnies,don't know the brand
good luck, this method worked for me time and again
if you have any brush marks afterwards they were there before you used the roller

[derekcohen]

I shall be using a water-based poly in the near future, something new to me, and so have been researching methods of application.

Brushing tends to have a poor result.

Recommended is a foam brush. This is, incidentally, the finish I shall be using ...



Even so, here is a negative report. In criticism, the presenter did not heed the instruction to stir the paint, but shook the can ..



I've not heard about rolling it on. I shall give it a try. What type of roller?

The best results appear to come from spraying, which is what I planned to do. I don't have spray equipment, but have purchased refillable spray cans (I once painted a car using them!).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Parks]

A lot of years ago I had this problem with a Wattyl product for pine, it was a one coat water based poly which supposedly prevented yellowing, yeah right.....it doesn't prevent it and I have the evidence. I had panelled a room with pine, painted the poly on and it looked a million dollars because the brush marks did not happen on the panelling but Mrs P wanted a wide window sill which also was going to be a shelf and when I applied the same stuff I had brush marks. After a few attempts and no success I rubbed it down and put down a very thick coat and let it dry then hit it with about 600 wet and dry, rinse and repeat and I had a perfect finish that looked like glass. That sort of finish is not what most people want but it suited the use the window sill was going to be put too. I recently did a big torsion box 3 metres by 600mm in mdf and used a woollen roller(oil based poly) no marks can be seen so it might be a combination of material and pixie dust that is the answer. BTW you can now buy microfibre rollers which might be worth looking at, me I would want a technical rep to show me what I am doing wrong. It is their product that when applied to their recommendations does not give the finish they say it does. Besides that we all want to know the answer!

[harry wall]

Besides that we all want to know the answer!

Well the answer is the two small rollers I just bought and tried were a failure. I tired to load the rollers fully, carefully and without bubbles. The foam one laid down more bubbles than I've ever seen, the short nap roller had less, but still lots of, bubbles. I gabbed my 25mm synthetic bristle brush, slapped on plenty of Estapol and brushed out both test pieces. They are looking pretty good but I won't know until they are fully dried.
The brush had been sitting in water overnight so maybe, just maybe that has helped.

[Chris Parks]

One thing I did with the torsion box was I poured the poly onto the surface because it was such a big area.

[harry wall]

Update. Progress has been made.
At 21 degrees C, 62% humidity, synthetic bristle brush soaked in water overnight, unthinned Estapol, about 5% Floetrol added (I'm still experimenting with the leftovers on this can), applying a very thick coat on a 80mm wide x 700mm long piece within 45 seconds AND apply to horizontal surface only gives the required (flat, no brush marks) finish.
Ahhhhh.... finally.
So I'm doing the table legs and table apron horizontal surface by horizontal surface only and all is good to date.

I see the big challenge in getting the 1m x 2m tabletop done quickly. It appears to me that maintaining a wet edge is a matter of seconds rather than minutes so I'll wait until the ambient temperature is less than 17 degrees C and add a higher % of Floetrol to the Estapol before attempting the table top.

Anyone got some bright ideas as to how I can apply a thick coat of this Estapol to a 1m x 2m surface AND have it brushed out in less than 60 seconds ??

[ian]

I see the big challenge in getting the 1m x 2m tabletop done quickly.

Anyone got some bright ideas as to how I can apply a thick coat of this Estapol to a 1m x 2m surface AND have it brushed out in less than 60 seconds ??

a soft bristle floor broom -- tongue firmly planted in cheek

[derekcohen]

Harry, think of me in the coming month when I plan to finish the kitchen doors I have been building, working in the early morning, trying to beat the summer heat of Perth, but expecting it will be about 25 degrees by 8:00 a.m. I am planning on spraying the finish. Will this work? I hope so, otherwise I shall have to reconsider the finish for water-based to oil-based, or wait 4 or 5 months.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Arron]

Anyone got some bright ideas as to how I can apply a thick coat of this Estapol to a 1m x 2m surface AND have it brushed out in less than 60 seconds ??

Shouldn't be a problem. Put it on with a roller then have 3 or so people 'tipping it off' at once. While at Uni I worked in a painting gang. Semi-gloss enamels were the problem at the time, and to keep an edge from drying it was common to have up to 5 painters at once working down a wall. Everyone still had to work flat out.

Seriously, though, if someone else hasn't said it already, you are having problems because you are trying to get something out of a product it was never made to give. The finish you are using is a DIY level product - it's made to be sold through hardware stores to users who probably don't even know what a brush mark is and are happy to get any type of result. If you want a quality job then may I suggest that you learn to spray an industrial lacquer, a 2 part lacquer, or maybe just French polish.