Ledge and Brace doors.

[Michael Breen]

Currently I want to make some ledge and brace doors for our house. I bought some Cypress pine from a Pillaga forest mill. I just love the patterns in this stuf. So the wood is fairly heavy. Could some kind soul let me know if I should glue the ledges and braces to the slats or are two screws sufficient, on the ledges and maybe also on the braces?
Thanks in advance, Michael

[Luke Maddux]

Pretty sure most people don't use glue on this but I could be wrong. All of the joints would either be some form of cross-grain or endgrain butting to long grain, so none of them would be particularly stable on the long term.

The most important thing is to have the braces slanting downhill TOWARD the hinges. Don't listen to the guy who's gonna contradict me on this. He's wrong. Downhill toward the hinges.

I think if you're planning on not painting the door then some nice, hammered-head nails would be a nice touch. Lie Nielsen carries some nice examples these days.

Good luck. Post photos!

Cheers,
Luke

[Bushmiller]

Michael

Luke is correct. No glue. Ideally your vertical boards would be tongued and groved as this will give rigidity and be some insurance against shrinkage.

The old method of fixing was to use nails significantly longer than the combined thickness of the boards and ledge. The nail protrudes about 15mm and is hammered over something like a punch until the point is facing the way it has just come. Then this "U" shape is hammered down. It makes it almost impossible to come out. It does look a little rugged and depending on where you are using it may be unsuitable.

However today I suggest you use screws.

The braces can be let into the ledges a little at the hinge side. Typically this style of door was used for outhouses, sheds and outside toilets. If you want a similar effect, but a little more refinement you could consider a framed, ledged and braced door, which personally I think is one of the best doors around.

Regards
Paul

[Michael Breen]

Thanks Luke and Bushmiller.(I presume that the name describes a craft and a preferred whisky from Ireland) Firstly I agree the downward towards hinge braces are the only way to go unless you really want the door to sag. The boards are tongue and grooved so that helps. I am hoping also that it may help with slight twists in the boards. I also think that the bent over nails method is a great way to go; so simple and traditional. But nostalgia is not what it used be and my wife wants a more refined look. The doors are for inside as we we want more wood and want to get rid of the cardboard and masonite things the-project home has. The patterns on the cypress pine are so lovely that they are small works of art in themselves. So thanks once again an we seem to be on the same page.
Cheers,
Michael

[Bushmiller]

The cypress does have an interesting grain pattern. I have one door made in this style in cypress. Just be aware that the timber is brittle when dry and very prone to chipping bits off.

I think the technique of bending the protruding ends of the nails over is called "cinching," but for the life of me I don't know where I came by that information because the two books I extracted pix from did not refer to this at all.

Some information on ledged and braced doors and framed, ledged and braced doors.

Framed ledged and braced door types 001.jpgFramed ledged and braced door types 002.jpgFramed ledged and braced door types 003.jpgFramed ledged and braced door types 004.jpgFramed ledged and braced door types 005.jpgFramed ledged and braced door types 006.jpgFramed ledged and braced door types 007.jpg

The first five pix follow on, but the last two are from a separate book and are specific for ledged and braced. I had to take photos as our scanner is close to useless.

Regards
Paul

[Michael Breen]

Thanks Bushmiller for your trouble and copying. You really need to go to an older kind of book for this stuff. Yes I am aware of the brittleness of the wood and am pre-drilling all the screw holes.
By the way, the word, "clinching" does occur in the last of the pages you sent me. So that clinches that.
Currently I am angsting about the kind of hinges and their placement. The door jamb is only about 3/4" and my ledges are, in line with something I read, 12 mills short of each side of the door, so with flat tapered hinges there would be a gap between the edge of the door and the ledge. Maybe I should just put the hinges on the face of the door. This might be unusual, but I have no difficulty showing the construction as part of the beauty of the door overall. I hope this is not too confused to read. Cheers and thanks again,
m

[Bushmiller]

Michael

If you are going to put the hinge on the face of the door you might like to consider Tee hinges. Of course you can't disguise these so make a feature of them. Paint them black perhaps.

Tee Hinge.jpg

Regards
Paul