Help for challenging small sliding lid box finish

[Studiovape]

Don't forget to report back with how it goes for you. I for one would be interested.

Cheers
Bevan

Yes, I will for sure, nothing a like thread without a summary of end results.

[fletty]

Hi SV and, likewise, welcome to the forum. I'm not normally 'in' the finishing thread but, by coincidence, I have just posted a thread on Aussie Oil. The 2 eCigarettes you have finished in Aussie Oil look stunning but I understand your concerns about longevity. You may not be aware, but this forum is hosted by U-Beaut who are the manufacturers of Aussie Oil and MR U-Beaut himself, the benevolent dictator, is probably Australia's greatest authority on finishing and will hopefully chime in soon.u
Your design is so crisp and stunning and your workmanship so good, that I almost wish I was a reforming smoker!
fletty

[Studiovape]

Hi SV and, likewise, welcome to the forum. I'm not normally 'in' the finishing thread but, by coincidence, I have just posted a thread on Aussie Oil. The 2 eCigarettes you have finished in Aussie Oil look stunning but I understand your concerns about longevity. You may not be aware, but this forum is hosted by U-Beaut who are the manufacturers of Aussie Oil and MR U-Beaut himself, the benevolent dictator, is probably Australia's greatest authority on finishing and will hopefully chime in soon.u
Your design is so crisp and stunning and your workmanship so good, that I almost wish I was a reforming smoker!
fletty

Hi Fletty, thanks for you welcome and you kind words, nothing is more painful than completing one of these stabilised vaporisers (e cig) and then pulling your hair out over the finishing and any advise from experience woodworkers/finishers is so gratefully received. I was aware of Niels parenting of this forum, and the Ubeaut connection, and I have scoured the net for his comments that might pertain or relate to my problem.
I am still awaiting samples of Osmo oil, but they are slow in arriving, and since I contacted them about Osmo oil I am becoming a little concerned about some of the comments on other woodwork forums (particularly UKworkshop) about it's poor performance exposed to liquids and household chemicals, I am still keen to do some of my own testing, but I can't help but feel that maybe Niel's input would be very useful.
Some posters stated they have returned to using Liberon FO due to durability issues with Osmo !!
I do have to accept that there is probably no "Ideal" finish for my project but where to compromise is the hard part.
I have been considering giving wipe on Poly another go, with higher ratio of Turps to Poly. I have tried Cabotts CFP floor poly but only thinned it to one part turps 2part poly, I have read the store bought wipe on poly only has about 1 part poly to 3 parts turps. either way I still have the issue of getting a flawless finish without too much build up.
I know Aussie oil is supposed to crosslink after around 21 days and after that it is marr and alcohol "resistant", but then if you have to touch it up, you have to wait all that time again before you can spill liquid on it etc, which is going to be for the folks who use the vaporiser daily.
I don't think there are many other applications that pose such a challenge for a finish and I'm asking a lot.
I also had a play with layering thin coats of Z-poxy finishing resin, and got good results, but the occasion hint that amine blush could be an issue down the road if it was final coated with poly for UV protection gave me the heebie jeebies, and I ditched the method. does it really need UV protection?, It's not really a piece of outdoor furniture is it?, but I can't find any reports of folks using at a clear coat top of final finish. It is very hard, has good abrasion resistance, helps stabilise the outer layer of wood,is waterproof and resistant to nearly every household chemical, polishes to a good shine, but could yellow over time ( how much considering such little exposure to sunlight who knows?) and could lift a finish if amine blush becomes and issue)
I didn't really go into depth about all the things I have tried initially because I wanted to see what you folks thought in general terms.
I'll say one thing though, if I can put this question to bed I'll be a very happy man indeed.

[Studiovape]

Anyone interested in amine blush , what it is and how you can reduce the possibility of it's related issues can find a useful report here :http://www.huntsman.com/performance_...20-%202013.pdf

MY interweb research showed that Z-poxy finishing resin is not "commonly' known to have amine blush issues, but the precautions I took were to run a fan between myself and my work piece to reduce CO2 being breathed onto the piecework and placing the coated box or panel into a mildly heated (40deg)fan exhausted drying box to cure at a constant warm temperature.

[Enfield Guy]

My strong suggestion is to do the testing and research. In my testing, once properly cured, a teaspoon of OP rum left on a coated product overnight and wiped off in the morning showed no ill effects to the finish. I suggest that others who have had problems with the finish have had issues with improper application.

[Sawdust Maker]

This may be a question to ask over in the box making part of the forum

I've heard good things about the Livos products though haven't used them myself
Livos

[Studiovape]

My strong suggestion is to do the testing and research. In my testing, once properly cured, a teaspoon of OP rum left on a coated product overnight and wiped off in the morning showed no ill effects to the finish. I suggest that others who have had problems with the finish have had issues with improper application.

Can I ask how long you consider it takes to properly cure?

[Enfield Guy]

I say 7 days. Most finishes will continue to harden for some time after the initial drying time in my experience.

[AngelaPetruzzi]

It would be a good idea to do some test pieces with various products and put them through the same conditions. No product is bomb proof and you will need to compromise, however, once you have completed several tests you will be better able to decide.

If you have not yet decided on a product, may I suggest trying the Linn Bathroom oil # 1703. This is the glossiest of the Livos products and better able to withstand various stains....once it has hardened and cured.

Re the question previously re white spirits The Mineral Spirits of USA equates in Australia toMineral Turpentine, also known as petro pine or just plain turps.
Turpentine: Strong odor. One of the most compatible solvents foroil paint. Fast drying. Relatively aggressive in its solvent action. It is thedistilled sap of a pine tree.

Mineral Spirits: Low, or no odor. Good, but not quite as compatible withoil paint as Turpentine. Slower drying than Turpentine. Not as aggresive asolvent as Turpentine. It is a distillation of petroleum.

Hope that is of some help.


l

[Studiovape]

It would be a good idea to do some test pieces with various products and put them through the same conditions. No product is bomb proof and you will need to compromise, however, once you have completed several tests you will be better able to decide.

If you have not yet decided on a product, may I suggest trying the Linn Bathroom oil # 1703. This is the glossiest of the Livos products and better able to withstand various stains....once it has hardened and cured.

Re the question previously re white spirits The Mineral Spirits of USA equates in Australia toMineral Turpentine, also known as petro pine or just plain turps.
Turpentine: Strong odor. One of the most compatible solvents foroil paint. Fast drying. Relatively aggressive in its solvent action. It is thedistilled sap of a pine tree.

Mineral Spirits: Low, or no odor. Good, but not quite as compatible withoil paint as Turpentine. Slower drying than Turpentine. Not as aggresive asolvent as Turpentine. It is a distillation of petroleum.

Hope that is of some help.


l

One if the biggest issues I have been having with my testing has been getting the grain to pop in a similar way to when using tru oil, I did receive samples of Osmo oil , but not in the gloss that I requested, however I have started testing with their satin sample, I also got dent a sample from Whittle Waxes of the Treatex gloss, I can't get anything approaching a gloss with either product, and the nesesstiy to stop sanding at around 220 grit (I did go to 320 though) did cause the finish to display visible scratches after trying to buff out the finish after applying. I am also yet to witness any water restsance from any of my samples with approaching a week of curing in good temperature and low humidity. I still get a water mark even after a few seconds of a drop of water on either sample.
Maybe my application method is off. I have been applying with a rag or dripping onto the furface and working itin with a white norton pad on a sanding backer on my drill, then using the same pad to buff remaining excess after wiping off most excess with a blue shop towel.
On the bamboo chopsticks that I used to stir the Treatex I have a much more visible film that seems to be getting very hard and glossy, but when removing the excess from the test panels I am left with a very low lustre that is basically the wood.
I have tried sanding in second and third coats with progressively finer grits and although this improves the sheen somewhat I don't know if this is removing all the protection I am supposed to be applying.
Pore filling is another issue, with the stabilised burls I am working with some of the voids cracks and pores wont really hold a timbermate type filler (i may need to add some water to the filler for better adhesion) and really these larger areas at least should be filled with epoxy to help stabilize the flaw, as the thickness of the box can be as little as 3mm and as much as 8.5mm.
I willpost some pictures of the test panells when work eases, and keep experimenting.
thank you Angela I have purchased a sample pot of the bathroom Oil this evening and will add that to my testing.
Here are a few pics of the latest piece I have made Red dyed and stabilised Tazzy Oak burl, Z_poxy pore fill and grain pop followed by around 10 coats of Tru oil.

[IMG]IMG_5323Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5335Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5329Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5295Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5298Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5301Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5306Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5315Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5318Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_5320Baz-Mod by Thomas Studios, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Arron]

I have to admit that if I was making these,and if I was actually trying to make some money out of selling them, then I'd be taking them to my nearest spray painting shop and saying 'what can you do with these'.

I don't think the route you are pursuing with various oil products will give you anything like the robustness you need - and you are going to see most of your profit disappear with labour-intensive products

Cheers
Arron

[Studiovape]

I have to admit that if I was making these,and if I was actually trying to make some money out of selling them, then I'd be taking them to my nearest spray painting shop and saying 'what can you do with these'.

I don't think the route you are pursuing with various oil products will give you anything like the robustness you need - and you are going to see most of your profit disappear with labour-intensive products

Cheers
Arron

Hi Arron thanks for your response, and although I understand your sentiment, let me just say that firstly,although this may have been a partially financially driven project at the start, most of my diminishing returns have been due to compensating for delays and failures by local third parties when attempting to outsource parts of the project, and this is not a mistake I intend to repeat lightly.
If I was only driven by the financial gain I would work more hours at my photography business.
My small home town of Gympie is very limited in these kind of resources, and I would like to be able to achieve 99% of the product by myself.
I will consider your suggestion however especially seeing as you have reworded it to sound less scathing I just don't like my chances in Gympie.

[LGS]

Hi SV,

I haven't yet suggested Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil. (HBO) This is a highly durable oil, made primarily from Tung Oil. It is easy to apply and use.
You apply the oil to the surface until it appears wet. (usually about 3 applications. (Don't skimp on the oil, but don't over apply either.)this should take about 20 minutes or thereabouts. You may need to find the appropriate time to suit your environment. Use a random orbital sander to burnish the oil. Given the size of your pieces, you might like to try using a rotary tool (Dremel etc.) to apply the friction. Sand up from 120g to at least 2000g and probably more in your case. I sand to 4000, but higher grits are available. Because the oil polymerizes when heated, you get a very durable finish that doesn't stain, doesn't mark and is safe to handle. You could try approaching Organoil for a sample. Given your position in the Australian landscape, maybe they'll be amenable to this idea.

[Studiovape]

Hi SV,

I haven't yet suggested Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil. (HBO) This is a highly durable oil, made primarily from Tung Oil. It is easy to apply and use.
You apply the oil to the surface until it appears wet. (usually about 3 applications. (Don't skimp on the oil, but don't over apply either.)this should take about 20 minutes or thereabouts. You may need to find the appropriate time to suit your environment. Use a random orbital sander to burnish the oil. Given the size of your pieces, you might like to try using a rotary tool (Dremel etc.) to apply the friction. Sand up from 120g to at least 2000g and probably more in your case. I sand to 4000, but higher grits are available. Because the oil polymerizes when heated, you get a very durable finish that doesn't stain, doesn't mark and is safe to handle. You could try approaching Organoil for a sample. Given your position in the Australian landscape, maybe they'll be amenable to this idea.

Hi LGS, thanks for your reply, I have read about HBO, but what concerned we was how to achieve the desired burnishing friction on the areas of the piece that are not flat, or to be more precise the 0.9mm recess for the button pannel and the dovetail lips and grooves, without removing excess material on finely machined sharp edges. Maybe you have a suggestion regarding this aspect?
Cheer
Sv

[LGS]

Hi again,

You could try using a high grit, the one you finish with and then buff those parts of the item which you cant sand.
Another option is to use a soft sander backing plate. Soft backing pads on the sander plate will allow you to sand as normal, except that the softer backing pad will allow you to sand over the edge of the face you're sanding. Both for the dry and wet sanding.

The more I think about it, the more I think it will work.

Regards

Rob