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5th July 2014, 08:57 PM #1SENIOR MEMBER
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Spear & Jackson 1961 Catalogue (Saws)
In 1960 Spear and Jackson celebrated its 200th year in existence with a range of "Double Century" tools. The Double Century handsaw with the royal purple medallion was illustrated in the 1961 catalogue. I managed to buy a 1961 catalogue though eBay recently and thought these scans would be of interest to saw lovers. The prices are in UK pre-decimal pounds, shillings and pence.
Does anybody have one of these Double Century saws in their shed? I've yet to see one offered on eBay or other websites.
Double Century S&J.jpg
Saws 1 S&J.jpg
Saws 2 S&J.jpg
Saws 3 S&J.jpg
Saws 4 S&J.jpg
Summary Saws S&J.jpg
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7th July 2014, 12:39 PM #2Senior Member
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S & J Backsaws
Thanks for posting.
My editors eye spotted a strange anomoly - it cost less to go to a brass back on the Spearior than on the lower grade saw.
It is possible to make all sorts of interpretations on economic, social and class grounds.
Neil
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8th July 2014, 10:19 AM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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Yes, and the text would indicate the brass on the cheaper saw is thinner too.
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6th July 2015, 07:01 AM #4New Member
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Spear & Jackson Double Century Saw
Just read an old post with a S&J catalogue containing the double century saw but I am unable to see any detail.
I bought a Spearior 88 on e-bay to kick off learning woodwork
and sharpening my own saw, the seller kindly threw in three other saws that he couldnt shift, one of which has a rosewood handle and a purple medallion but the etching is so faint I cant see the wording, would anyone have a close up of one of these saws as I gather they are all numbered and would like to find out what mine is.
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6th July 2015, 11:55 AM #5
The reference to 'cellulosed' finish is interesting and answers a question I posed over in the handmade saws subforum. Thanks a lot for posting the catalog.
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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6th July 2015, 06:48 PM #6Member
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By the begining of '60 the quality of S&J saws was already in serious decline. they were at they apogee in 1919 and sort of lingered at that excellent level until the begining of ww2.
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7th July 2015, 01:40 AM #7GOLD MEMBER
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I'm not aware of anyone who made fabulous saws after about 1930 or so, especially not after another 10 years beyond that.
I know there is a cult following for the sandvik saws, but their pattern is pretty doggish.
That's interesting catalog information - it appears they liked the bulky industrial design style handle for their more expensive saws, vs. the older classic pattern. That's interesting, because I think it makes the saws look cheap!!
Thanks for copying the pictures over for us, always interesting to see how stuff was marketed.
Do you know what the price denominations are ? It says price "each", but I can't imagine those prices would've been in pounds in the 1960s.
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7th July 2015, 01:55 AM #8SENIOR MEMBER
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price of saws
Price is in English pre-decimal shillings and pence. For instance (excluding the Double Century) their finest saw, the Spearior with the red medallion, cost 44 shillings for a 26 inch rip saw.
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7th July 2015, 01:58 AM #9GOLD MEMBER
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7th July 2015, 02:05 AM #10GOLD MEMBER
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that makes sense, so a hair over 2 pounds in price. I don't know anything about inflation over the years there, though, vs. here. The same saw would've probably sold for five bucks here, give or take.
And as much as they were cheapened by then, I'm sure with a good filing job, they'd still rip it up.
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7th July 2015, 02:29 AM #11SENIOR MEMBER
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saw prices
And, according to Office of National Statistics the UK annual household income was 960 pounds (or 18 pounds 10 shillings per week).
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/househ...ld-income.html
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, there were 20 shillings in a pound? This means the UK annual household income was 370 shillings. At 44 shillings per saw, this represented 12% of a UK average household weekly income.
I think that would be about right. Of course, now one would buy a circular saw - perhaps a Makita 235mm model.
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7th July 2015, 02:33 AM #12GOLD MEMBER
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Sounds about right. I calculated it similarly (somewhere a little over half of a day's work).
Figure that in current terms, that'd be about $150 a saw.
I think that's held even since the late 1800s and early 1900s (of course that's comparing the highest dollar saws, perhaps the high dollar disston saws were closer to a day's wage in 1895).
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7th July 2015, 11:29 AM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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David, the Sandvik saws from 1950s/1960s are valued for the quality of the steel, high quality and hard. I did almost a complete retooth, 8 ppi, on one a while ago, went through a file or 2 and took ages (I did restore some breasting). Although hard steel, I rarely see broken teeth. I agree, the handles are bloody awful.
Cheers
Peter
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7th July 2015, 01:54 PM #14GOLD MEMBER
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That's what I have heard, that the steel is very hard. For us sharpening our saws, though, that's a file killer. It stays sharp a little longer, but sharpens much harder.
I could understand the virtue for someone paying someone else to sharpen files and wanting to lengthen the interval, though.
(that being said, the worst of what I usually rip here in the states is beech, ash, oak or maple. I guess all of it is in the same ballpark in terms of hardness, and that's not very compared to stuff like cocobolo, gum, etc. ).
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8th July 2015, 11:08 AM #15
I've sharpened a few file-killers in my time, & often wondered if they adequately return the extra effort & file-wear !
I think you might notice if you used your saws continually, every day, like the chippies of my father's time (they often had to sharpen their hand saws daily), but as an amateur woodworker I have never been able to come to any sensible conclusions about the merits of very hard plate for any saws I use. I don't own any extremely hard saws, atm, but what I have, certainly do vary a bit between very easy and moderately tough to file. However, given they are all different saws used for different purposes, & the intervals between sharpening can vary from a couple of months to a couple of years, depending on the particular saw & how much it gets used, there's no way to make any useful comparisons. Putting together any sort of genuine comparison of plate hardness would be very difficult, I think, which is presumably why no-one seems to have attempted it.
In the spirit of discussion, I'll offer an opinion. I rather suspect that very hard plate for hand saws is an idea that doesn't work as well as you might imagine, particularly if you don't use hand saws constantly. I think of carbide-tipped blades in the table saw. Without question, they stay sharp waaay longer than the steel blades of old, it was simply impractical to work many of our woods the way folks do now, with steel blades! But during my years when I had sporadic shed time, my blades often became very blunt, because dulling sneaks up on you slowly. Now that I'm in the shed almost every day & the saw is used much more regularly & consistently, I'm more aware of it & change my blades long before they start burning their way through the wood. So, given that most hand saw users of today don't use their saws every single day, & any normal person would try to get the most out of their hand saw before the next sharpening (& try even harder when you know sharpening is going to be a pita!), it follows that with very hard blades, they are likely to spend more time sawing with less than sharp teeth. I've drawn this comparison before, with respect to plane blades.
So I seek a balance between longevity of the edge (or edges) and ease of restoring a good working sharpness (which will vary depending on your sharpening skills & inclinations). The saws I use most are all probably of 'medium' hardness, but stay sharp plenty long enough for practical purposes. The more rapid rate at which useful sharpness tails off on 'medium' hard steels isn't a bad thing, imo, as I more quickly realise if I've passed the 'best by' point & it's time to re-sharpen. I'm less likely to put that off when I know it will be relatively quick & easy.....
Cheers,IW