Can I stain under Kunos Livos?

[grevilleavic]

Hi Everyone! I was wondering if anyone can help me? I am refinishing a couple of bedside tables. The old paint has been removed with stripper and I'm trying to get close to matching the colour of our existing timber headboard. I've never used stain before in my life. I've always run with the natural timber colour under either danish oil or Kuno Livos. So this is going to be my first go at staining. I'm a huge fan of the Kunos Livos oil finish, but I don't want to buy the coloured stuff. I want to put on a layer of stain and get the colour right, and then be able to put on as many coats of the clear Kunos as I like without making it much darker. So I was going to try putting on a British Paints Oil based interior stain under the Kunos Livos. Has anyone done this before?

[tea lady]

I'd ask Kunos what stain to use. Oil based finishes on top of oil based stain will move the stain. Might want to go with water based stain. Anyway, ask kunos.

[grevilleavic]

Thanks TeaLady,

I emailed Livos, and they (obviously) suggested using their range of stains (Livos Kaldet #270) under the Kunos. They don't call their product water-based or oil-based, but the stain contents seem to be all oils. (It ticks me off a bit that they don't put the "wash brushes in..." information on their products on the website). But I did some digging, and the finishing info in the books I have all suggest that beginners should use water-based stain as it's a more forgiving in terms of drying times and overlapping edges. You're right though, Kunos made the point that it is very important that the surface remains porous to enable the Livos oils to penetrate the timber. So I'll go looking for a porous, water-based stain. Thank-you!

[tea lady]

Yes they would push their product. : Ubeaut have water based stain. Do lots of tests on scrap. put the finish on as well cos that will change the colour a bit. You can also get a bit of a handle on how it handles.

[section1]

I have used this product extensively for the last two years and have found to be excellent, I've also used this on a variety of timbers and stains and it works on all but the key is experimentation before application because the results are different between species, so therefore the application should be different. For eg. on Tassy Blackwood applying a thin coat will yield no visible results but a heavy coat as you would with danish oil and sanding in between every coat with 0000 wool will result in a beautiful sheen to semi gloss. It does label on the can not to apply over stains but I found this to be untrue.

[AngelaPetruzzi]

Hope your issue was sorted out by now Grevilleavic and thank you for your comments, we always value the feedback we receive from clients, professional and DIYs of their experiences with the products, but either way thought it best to reply to your concerns and that of tea lady’s comments.
Because we work with the product, we have a good idea of whether a stain may or may not work but it is always good to do a test sample of anything new as much will be dependent on the particular timber and especially the sanding grit.
We naturally only recommend our oils as we are confident of how they work and have experience with them especially due to the nature of the ingredients that these products are compatible with each other. That does not mean though that we have not had clients use two different products together and it has worked but logic says, that due to the penetrating nature of the oils, if there is e.g. a water based stain first, the pores or blocked and then one applies the Kunos, there is nothing for the oil to adhere to...so you will be putting it on then wiping it off and you will not get any benefit from using the oil.
Yes, there are other good oil and water based products in the market place but there are also many concerning products too, as many here on the forum have found out by experience. While it is always good to test new products, it is helpful to hear from those with experience with them too .
We are also in the process of making it a bit more obvious too as to “how to clean” tools. It is actually on the Technical data sheet of all the products however we will bring this forward onto the main page of the product. These products are manufactured in Germany and are exported worldwide and so unfortunately we don’t have much say as to what actually goes on the label.

[section1]

. It does label on the can not to apply over stains but I found this to be untrue.

Angela made a fine point which I kind of misled you. I have not tried it with water based stains, if I stain I use either oil based or spirit based. If your appyling oil based stains then there is no need to apply Kunos over it, the visible difference is none and allow it to dry thoroughly before waxing it if you apply wax. With Spirit based stains and I use industrial so called speed stain. For whatever reason it never dries completely I always have some coming off on the rag , I've spoken to Wattyl about this and they claim it's meant to be sprayed on and not applied with a rag, hog wash.

As for sanding the higher the grit the less penetration and the effects are different and that's the thing with this product I haven't found in others, not all species are the same so this product will not give you the same effect with all species. Again the key is experimentation, some dilute kunos others don't but the most important point I should make here make sure your glue joints are fully cured before application. Good luck.