Taking the black of old silky oak furniture

[MargieY]

Hi All

I am new to this forum and am hoping there are lots ofexperts that can advise me. All advice will be greatly appreciated. Sorry I am probably asking questions that youhave all been over before.
I have joined because I am finally reviving an interestI've had in refreshing old furniture since I was a kid. My Dad was a great amateurantique restorer, and passed on his interest. Unfortunately, now that I have timeto give it, Dad isn’t around to give me tips. I only remember little bits and pieces.
I have just bought a 1930’s silky oak drop front desk. It is a really nice solid piece with someinteresting features. Unfortunately, it is one of the many pieces from that erastained black. The lady in the shop said that it was so that they looked moreTudor (a design revival at the time). It is apparently a Rosenstengel – I boughtit in Toowoomba.
Other than a bit of worn off stain on the top surface, itis in really good nick. The black isotherwise quite consistent and heavy.
SO HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS...
1. What would the black stain be?
Googling has suggested Japan black or bootpolish...

2. Can I do anything to remove it or lightenit? It would be nice to see more of the timber grain! Although, I would bequite happy with it remaining a bit dark.
Again googling suggests fine steel wool,metho and lots of elbow grease...
I don’t want to sand ‘cause I have noskill.

3. If no to 2, can I do anything to polish itup?

4. My Dad used to make a stuff he called “MagicMixture”. I think it was metho or turps(?), boiled linseed and a bit of paintstripper? Does anyone have a recipe, andwould it be any good for my job?
Thanks again for any advice,
MargieY

[meako]

This may be laughed out of town but I once saw a cobbler remove wax stains from a piece of clothing using a low heat iron and brown paper. He laid the paper on and ironed it and the heat drew out the wax and into the paper. Will this work for timber ? dunno but can't see why not. Low heat so as not to scorch anything.
cheers.

[Horsecroft88]

I reckon it is a little hard to give some suggestions with out photos, and we all love photos, but regardless, if it is black japan finished, from my extremely limited experience with this stuff, I have found it extremely hard to get it off anything, with out heavy sanding.

Boot polish I somehow doubt it as it just wouldn't have been sufficiently durable, I would have thought.

The suggestion re your dad's solution I don't, perhaps it might work but it kind of seems very strange especially the mix of linseed oil with paint stripper. Turps obviously works to break down oils but I am not sure of the constituents of black japan. Metho normally is helpful in removing old shellac. I guess perhaps you have nothing to loose by trying make up a couple of different solutions and see what it might do, especially if there is anywhere you could try it out which is not readily obvious to looking at. Say somewhere underneath or in a shaded area of the desk.

Good luck with it.

[Big Shed]

Black stain from that era was usually bitumen and/or Gilsonite based.

It is generally hard to remove completely as it gets soaked in to the grain of the wood (ie it is a stain rather than a surface coating like paint)

It probably has an oil based varnish over the top which should remove easily with a good quality paint stripper.

Once the protective varnish has been removed try removing the bitumen stain with steel wool and plenty of turps, you should get a lot of it off that way.

Of course once you do all that it won't look the same anymore as it did in the 1930s, so not really restoring?

[RoyG]

A Rosenstengel Silky Oak Drop Front Desk is not common, and is worth a bit......

Ed Rosenstengel built furniture in South East Queensland in the early 20th Century. His factory was in Fortitude Valley in Brisbane. The style of furniture that you've describes (Jacobean style in black stained silky oak) was the main style made by Ed Rosenstengel. All of his pieces had a label somewhere on them showing his company name, address etc. Rosenstengel antiques used to be fairly commonly available in Brisbane until the early 1970's, but still commanded a premium price. As a result of the two major floods in Brisbane in the last fourty or so years, a large volume of those antiques were destroyed or damaged beyond repair during the floods. As a result, Rosenstengle furniture is no longer as commonly available as it once was, and as a result Rosenstengle furniture is increasing in value.

For more info, have a look at this web site: http://rosenstengelfurniture.com/.

In particular, have a look at the page on that web site regarding restoration. I have restored a few pieces of Rosenstengel furiture (and my extended family owns quite a few pieces). Over time, the finish darkens, often quite a lot. This is mostly due to the build-up of grime, furniture wax, and various furniture oils that people will have applied over the years. I suggest carefully following the cleaning instructions included on the above web site. I quote from that web site:

"If you’re fortunate enough to own an original Rosenstengel piece but consider it in need of some restoration then my advice, as with any antique or period item, is to proceed cautiously. Well intentioned but overzealous restoration can do irreversible damage and negatively affect the items market value. If you own what you believe to be a rare or special piece that needs repair then get some professional advice. You should do the minimum amount of work possible to return it to functional use or acceptable cosmetic appearance. Below are some tips that may assist you in caring for any pieces in your possession.

If you’re lucky the piece will need nothing more than a good clean to remove years of dirt and grime followed by the application of a good quality paste wax. The most effective way to wash the piece is with warm (not hot) water with common dishwashing liquid. Remember that Ed Rosenstengel pieces were all polished by hand with Shellac (French polish), and water is the enemy of shellac polish. So go steady and dry the piece off as you go. At no time should you have free water sitting on the surface of the piece. Do a small area at a time and make sure your rag is damp rather than dripping wet. Good wax polishes can be purchased at restoration suppliers, antique stores or the bigger hardware chains. Try to buy a dark coloured wax as this serves the dual purpose of applying the protective wax coating and also colouring up any bumps or minor scratches that may have removed the original polish or stain. Reapplying the wax annually is good practice and will help keep your piece in top condition. I strongly recommend you don’t apply the common furniture cleaning and polishing products available from grocery chains as these often contain silicon and oils which can affect the finish. Silicon based products will make it extremely difficult to refinish the piece should repairs ever need to be done as nothing will effectively stick to silicon and it is almost impossible to remove."

As regards lightening the dark finish, please don't. The above web site has some salient advice regarding lightening the finish. As a final observation - I've had an interest in Rosenstengel furniture for over fourty years. In that time, I've never seen a Rosenstengel Drop Front Desk in Jacobean style black stained silky oak. I suggest that what you have is rare - mabe a piece custom made for a customer.

Hope the above information is of use to you.

Regards,

Roy