A brush is useless after 1st use?

[Tegmark]

It seems impossible to avoid lots of pin holes/air bubbles with brush after the 1st use.

I clean the brush very well in thinners or spirits & if it dries it is hard & all the bristols are not useful, if I use soap & conditioner to get the brush nice it contaminates the clear, If I rinse with thinners & go straight to brushing it adds pinholes. Any moisture seems to cause pinholes. And I suspect the brushing & solvent frails the bristols in no time & that is causing the pinholes. Thinng the clear with thinners adds even more finer pinholes. Maybe I have missed a something crucial here? It just seems the bristols even when completely dry are damaged straight away & thats causing them.

[Master Splinter]

If it's drying hard, it's not washed and rinsed well enough.

I wash brushes used for solvent based paints in acrylic lacquer thinners (the stuff used for car paints), as the solvents in it will soften just about anything. I use a dirty wash first (thinners used before) followed (after getting as much thinners out of the brush as possible) by a slosh of clean thinners to remove any last traces. Then it's into the sink for water and truck wash, and then leave it to dry.

Note that the spraypaint solvent will also remove old paint, paint on the ferrule, paint on the handle, paint that the manufacturer has put on the handle, and sometimes, with some cheap plastic handles, the handle itself.

[dr4g0nfly]

You say you clean in a solvent, but don't say what the finish is, Paint, Oil, Lacquer etc. Care to give us a little more info.

Although I do agree that if it's drying hard it's not clean when you think you've finished.

I use two containers of solvent. Clean the worst of the paint out, then use the First one to clean the bristles as much as possible, and then second to make sure it is clean, sometimes with a second wash in the clean solvent. As the second wash gets oily it becomes the First wash and I start a new container of second wash.

And I never mix paintbrushes used in oil based finishes with water based finishes or visa versa.

[Robson Valley]

There is a very wide spectrum of brush qualities. In water color painting, as with any other brush-applied medium, the cost varies from a few pennies to $75.00 each, or more. I use a few, all the way from bottom to top (gift).
Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player. Good brushes make for good results.

Cheap brushes with coarse/inferior bristles usually make a coarse, inferior finish. They lose bristles in the finish, all sorts of bubbles (usually the result of over-working). I've even tried the throw-away brushes for glue. Wrong.
With a good brush, you get what you pay for, you should be able to lay the finish down in one pass without a brushmark. Took me quite a while to learn to do, even on less that 300m interior painted house molding. Possibly w/c painting taught me that I can't back up. Not fence painting.

As an adjunct to brush cleaning, you might consider a presoak in solvent. This gets the solvent into the fiber in the ferrule so there's no finish medium in there to rinse out. I've been using a Grumbacher Anniversary #8 round for w/c. Was a gift in about 1985 or so. $75.00 then and paints like it, too. You can bet that I've learned how to look after it.
I inherited 2 suitcases (! !) of artists' acrylic paints & brushes from my Dad. Different cleaning issues but the same ritual.

[jimbur]

Robson's raised a very important point. If the bristles under the ferrule get soaked in whatever they are very hard to get clean and of course will tend to contaminate the rest of the bristles after cleaning. Always try to use the lower part of the brush - it makes cleaning easier and extends the life of the bristles.

[chambezio]

Believe it or not!!!!
I had to do a reno to a kitchen for a bloke up the road. Wifey wanted a new kitchen (on my suggestion. The old one was past its use by date) Hubby says the cupboards are fine just paint the Melamine doors! Not a fan of painted doors in such a hard wearing place as a kitchen. Any way...never done it before but had heard that their is a"special" undercoat that is imperative for the preceding top coats are to adhere. Googled and found White Knight had the "special" undercoat and a really helpful Utube to follow. Old mate on the Utube was dressed in authentic white Painter's overalls so what he said had to be right!! Anyway, long story short, he used a 100mm micro roller to apply the stuff. Worked a treat and better still was really qiuck. To coats of "special" undercoat, then 2 coats of normal oil based gloss. Now one tip that surprised me was he said to drop your paint brush/roller into water???yes water then the next day dry water from brush/roller with a dry rag then resume painting!!!!!.....No sign of water in the paint!!! I even loded up the roller with paint just prior to dropping it into the water over night.
I was skeptical until I tried it. But the Utube guy did have the authentic white overalls so I knew he wouldn't tell me a fib!!!
Just a thought about your bubbles.....are you painting solid timber??? If so the timber may have "air cracks" which is letting air into the fresh paint as it dries/releases the solvent. This happened to a Cypress floor I put down in the lounge room. Fresh air (and cooler temperature) under the floor and warm/hot air in the lounge room then Polyurethane on top side, sucked up air which gave tiny bubbles in the clear finish.

Just for some information.....there was a Forumite on here some time ago, who died. His wife wrote in the Forum some where that she was her husbands offsider in their painting business. She said that he taught her to take exceptional care of pure bristle brushes (that were expensive) and used them for varnish and for painting oil paints on trims and doors. She said that he had some that he had had for 25 years!!
Rssr, Ern, put me onto Brush restorer. (from your paint shop) It looks and smells like Turps....but it can rejuvenate old hard brushes over night. I then use truck wash and let them dry in the sun.

[HOOKED.UP]

All the above advice is really good . I think you are not cleaning your brushes correctly and perhaps you are using cheap brushes. Some of my brushes are now 30 years old. Cleaned carefully after each use. They are all expensive brushes but have paid for them selves in their value of finish. I have never ever had the problems you describe. PAUL.

[Robson Valley]

Lethargic sod that I am, if I use an oil or alkyd base paint/finish, I wrap the brushes in kitchen plastic wrap and put them in my freezer. Every night until I finish the job (eg painting the exterior of a house). Then, I toss the brushes. Given the size of the job, I like to think that my time is worth more than a couple of $15 brushes.

[Master Splinter]

I like this sort of brush...

AIR SPRAY GUN TOUCH UP 100ML BR - Supercheap Auto Australia

[ubeaut]

A good brush is imperative, as is the right brush for the job.

I use mainly shellac or our Hard Shellac and for this the brush is the best way to get the best possible finish. With the hard shellac cleaning is of utmost importance. Leaving a brush improperly cleaned and stored can be a very expensive mistake.

I wash my brushes in pure metho then after the wash I suspend them in metho with just the bristles touching the meths to about half their length. Even suspending them in a closed jar with metho and the bristles out of the meths will keep the brush in good condition ready for it's next use.

Unfortunately they are all packed away now and I can't show a picture but here's a bit of an explanation for those who haven't seen them at the T&WWWShows.

I use a tall spaghetti sauce bottle/jar (minus the sauce) with a hole cut in the lid that will snugly fit the handle of the brush. The handle has a hole drilled through it to take a nail or piece of twitching wire etc and this stops the brush from falling into the bottle/jar. That's all you need. Put enough metho in the jar to bring it about 1/2 way up the bristles when the lid is secured with the brush in it.

Below are a couple of links to Gramercy Tools in New York and their brushes, which I use and most highly recommend, especially the European Ox Hair ones for shellac. They are reasonably well priced and better than anything else I have found in Australia without paying 2-3 times the price (if you can find any).

Ox Hair brushes for shellac and lacquer - use of the brush in the video on this leaves a little bit to be desired but a bit informative

Artificial Badger hair for water based finishes

Movie of Ox Hair brush being made definitely worth a look.

There is a lot more on the Gramercy site that is also of interest, find the other bits for yourselves.

Cheers - Neil

PS I have both camel hair and Ox hair brushes some of my camel hair brushes are over 25 years old and as good as the day they were first purchased the Ox hair ones are 7 years old now and still like new, except for the one that someone left sitting in metho on the bottom of the jar for a couple of weeks. I won't mention which of my sons it was but he doesn't live in Australia any more. No I didn't chase him away he married a Yank and moved to Houston

[Tegmark]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I have perfected the cleaning process & dries soft.

So Ill try the Purdy white bristle, their description sounds better than the Ox-hair.

[ubeaut]

So Ill try the Purdy white bristle, their description sounds better than the Ox-hair.

Just be aware that the (purdy white bristle) artificial badger hair brushes are for water based finishes not for lacquers, regular polyurethane, shellac, etc. . If used with anything other than water based finishes the bristles will clump and be almost useless for application.

Cheers - Neil

[Tegmark]

Just be aware that the (purdy white bristle) artificial badger hair brushes are for water based finishes not for lacquers, regular polyurethane, shellac, etc. . If used with anything other than water based finishes the bristles will clump and be almost useless for application.

Cheers - Neil

Not sure exactly what you mean by clump?


With my bunnings brush , After rinsing the brush with thinners, it felt smooth & soft. I rinsed it in soapy water many times to get the remains out. Dried it as best I could & later its stiff. (maybe an air blower is needed). I wonder if its the water alone in the bristols or maybe lack of combing that makes it stiff?

Also these tiny pinhole/air bubbles i suspect are being caused by not letting the wax & greese remover fully evaporate & dry or the brush still isn't completely dry. This is so difficult with fine clear & perfect mirror finish. Lot to learn.

Thanks

[ubeaut]

Not sure exactly what you mean by clump?

What I mean is that the artificial badger hair brushes (the purdy white ones) are for water based finishes ONLY they are not for use shellac or lacquers, or any other finish that uses turpentine or thinners or methylated spirits as their thinner. If you use them with anything other than water based product they will clump.

In other words instead of being thousands of individual hairs giving a smooth "brush stroke free" surface the hairs will all clump into one or a number of matted sections and will deliver an uneven almost disgusting layer of finish to the surface. Wit time the bristles may even begin to disintegrate if used constantly with the above mentioned non water based products.

Both the ox hair and artificial badger are fantastic brushes but are for different finishes and neither will do for both water and lacquer finishes.

Unfortunately you need to have the right brush for your finish of choice. Purdy white one for water. Ox hair or other fine natural bristle for shellac and lacquers, etc.

I clean the brush very well in thinners or spirits & if it dries it is hard & all the bristols are not useful, if I use soap & conditioner to get the brush nice it......

Just exactly what finish are you using because you say you clean with thinners or spirits, you should be using the same solvent as what is used in the finish or recommended by the manufacturer.... This could be turpentine, metho, or a lacquer thinner like acetone or toluene, etc.

You also mention washing with soap and conditioner. What sort of conditioner are you using? Is it hair conditioner or is it a conditioner specifically designed for brushes?

Is the brush you are using a synthetic bristle or natural bristle?

Coming from Bunnies the brush could more than likely be a paint brush rather than a lacquer brush, but not necessarily. Paint brushes as a rule have cheaper, courser, bristles and may fray (split) somewhat with washing some are actually split on frayed on purpose.

Sorry about all the questions but some times it's really hard to give a helpful or correct answer without knowing everything. Be truthful in your responses because fudging the answers won't help solve your problems. I have often had people say something like: "No I didn't put water or turpentine into the shellac. It wasn't anything I did, it was like that." When in actual fact they had done, but didn't want to admit to having done the wrong thing, thinking they would look foolish or that they may somehow get into trouble or similar.

Hope this answers at least a part of your question for you.

Cheers - Neil