A plea for help

[Bob Hall]

I know this is a remote possibility, but if you don't ask......
I'm restoring/rebuilding a 1901-vintage Pullman sleeping car, believed to be the last of its type in the World, at Canberra Railway Museum.
One of the more daunting tasks coming up is the upholstering of the seats. Now this car was converted to a travelling dental clinic in 1935, so most of the original seats are gone. However, I'm in the process of scrounging enough timber to make the basic frames, but from there, I have to find the correct springs etc., to start with and then put all that together.
The final finish wil lbe white haircloth, which I can source from China.
However, I've never done any upholstery, so my plaintive plea is for anyone in the ACT region who might have the skills to help in this part of the project.
Unfortunately, this whole project is being done on the smell of an oily rag and I'm more or less resigned to looking for grant funding to have at least some of this work done professionally, but you never know, someone might just pop up and offer there expertise.
I'd be more thasn happy to hear from anyone who could help.
Cheers, Bob.

[Glenrob]

G'day Bob from another Bob,

I'm not sure if what I can tell you will be of any help, but my son is/was one of the top motor upholsters in the State. He did a lot of the top Show cars around at the time he was still 'in the business'
Whether or not his abilities and your predicament can be of mutual assistance or not will reman to be seen.
I guess what we'll need is more info, especially whether your seat is transportable and if he is able to take the job on or not.
Let me know a bit more about it and I'll then ask him what he thinks.

Cheers,
Bob

[Bob Hall]

G'day Bob from another Bob,

I'm not sure if what I can tell you will be of any help, but my son is/was one of the top motor upholsters in the State. He did a lot of the top Show cars around at the time he was still 'in the business'
Whether or not his abilities and your predicament can be of mutual assistance or not will reman to be seen.
I guess what we'll need is more info, especially whether your seat is transportable and if he is able to take the job on or not.
Let me know a bit more about it and I'll then ask him what he thinks.

Cheers,
Bob

Bob,
Thanks for your response. There are actually about 30 seat cushions that need to be done, most from timber frame up and a few re-covering existing ones.
Where does your son live? It's probably not practical if he's very far away.
If he's at all interested, I can email you a pic of one of the old ones that needs fixing and also a photo of what they should look like when finished.
Cheers, Bob

[Sawdust Maker]

Don't email the photos

put them on this thread - I'm now really curious

sorry but I can't help with the work

[Joe Townsville]

Bob,

1. If you can make it to the Canberra T&WWW show this weekend, go to the Padgham upholstery stand. They are very helpful and full of good advice. Take some photos with you if you can.

2. I know that people at the National Museum restore old cars. I have the name and contact details of their mechanical expert. He may be able to put you in touch with their upholstery expert for advice etc.

3. I'm an amateur upholsterer myself, inching towards finishing a Chesterfield sofa myself. I am using traditional materials for the job. I get all my materials from Padgham. (They're a Melbourne company, but have a very good on line retail site). Please PM me and I'll send you my contact details. I live in Yass, (I'm retired) and have a daughter in Canberra. I can easily get to your museum at a mutually convenient time.

[Bob Hall]

Bob,

1. If you can make it to the Canberra T&WWW show this weekend, go to the Padgham upholstery stand. They are very helpful and full of good advice. Take some photos with you if you can.

2. I know that people at the National Museum restore old cars. I have the name and contact details of their mechanical expert. He may be able to put you in touch with their upholstery expert for advice etc.

3. I'm an amateur upholsterer myself, inching towards finishing a Chesterfield sofa myself. I am using traditional materials for the job. I get all my materials from Padgham. (They're a Melbourne company, but have a very good on line retail site). Please PM me and I'll send you my contact details. I live in Yass, (I'm retired) and have a daughter in Canberra. I can easily get to your museum at a mutually convenient time.

Joe Townsville from Yass!,
I certainly will be visiting Padgham's on Saturday. In fact, I already have some spring samples to show them!
Interesting that you live in Yass. Do you know Bob Frank? He's done a couple of cushions already, to the calico stage.
Attached are photos of an original interior and unrestored cushion.
I've established that the seats in this car were originally upholstered in white hair cloth. I have several samples of this from a manufacturer in China and intend to show them and a cushion to a local heritage upholsterer who I hope will give me some sage advice.
Well, I managed to attach one of those pics. Maybe the other one's too big.
Cheers, Bob

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Hi Bob. Haircloth was originally horsehair one way (max 66cm length of horse hair tails) and cotton the other way (cant remember my warp and weft rules, sorry). So, haircloth was apparently originally Chinese but copied by the Scottish, French and German weavers, some of who still produce the cotton/horsehair mix but at ridiculous prices (like over $600 per metre only 60 cm wide). The Chinese stuff is now all horsehair with synthetic fibres for the longer dimension. It is much more stretchy lengthwise than the original and can go baggy with time so bear that in mind. I have quite a few pieces with the original 160+ year old black sateen haircloth on them (complete with wear holes, unfortunately) as well as Aus antique furniture reupholstered in different haircloths over the last 30 years. There was a really good upholsterer in Sydney, if he hasn't retired yet, he did a lot for us in haircloth about 20 years ago. His name is Paul Worthington at Bondi Junction. You could look him up and see if he can help or recommend someone. Other, general upholsterers do not seem to like haircloth, though we have had some success in Brisbane a couple of years ago. The fabric is stiff and inflexible in the width.

[ian]

Hi Bob

Sounds like the restoration of that car will be years in the making

in terms of funding, perhaps crowd sourcing might be an option Crowdfunding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but to ideas

have you contacted the NSW Rail Museum at Thirlmere -- they may have an in-house expert

The Sturt School at Mittagong might know someone who can teach you, or another volunteer, how to do it

I'm fairly certain that the NSW TAFE system still teaches traditional upulsory -- would be worth a few emails or phone calls

I'd also try organisations like the NSW Historic Houses Trust, the National Trust, the Powerhouse Museum


Lastly, if it's a proper full historically accurate restoration of the car, please don't skimp and use imitation fabric from China -- raise the funds necessary to purchase the real stuff

[Bob Hall]

Thanks for those tips, chaps. I've been sent samples of horsehair from a Chinese supplier and when I get a chance, I'm going to show them to a local upholsterer who has a good reputation with antiques. RTM don't have any "in-house" experts. I did contact Powerhouse and they didn't even have the courtesy to reply to my email. The National Museum was very supportive, but they couldn't really help. National Trust may be able to put me in touch with an historic fabrics expert. I'll give them a try. As for funding, I've spent 13 years trying to get some half reasonable financial support for this project, without luck. If this car was owned by the Smithsonian Institute, I'm sure they'd easily find half a million or so, but not in Australia, it seems. I've already found that the springs used in the seats will probably have to be custom-made and given I need about 600, that's likely to cost thousands of bucks! Ahh, the joy of doing things on the smell of an oily rag.....

[ian]

Thanks for those tips, chaps. I've been sent samples of horsehair from a Chinese supplier and when I get a chance, I'm going to show them to a local upholsterer who has a good reputation with antiques.

RTM don't have any "in-house" experts.

but can they put you in contact with an expert who operates outside the RTM?
also, resources for rail carriage restoration are so thin on the ground, the ARHS (ACT) and RTM, and the new NSW Rail Heritage body are supposed to share resources.

As for funding, I've spent 13 years trying to get some half reasonable financial support for this project, without luck. If this car was owned by the Smithsonian Institute, I'm sure they'd easily find half a million or so, but not in Australia, it seems.

in the US there would be philanthopists falling over themselves to provide the $$. Australia has a totally different culture grounded on totally different expectations of Goverenment support for health, the arts and projects like yours.

I've already found that the springs used in the seats will probably have to be custom-made and given I need about 600, that's likely to cost thousands of bucks! Ahh, the joy of doing things on the smell of an oily rag.....

the question has to be asked ... what does the ARHS need to make the springs themselves?
You have probably already investigated the possibility of getting a mattress factory to make the springs or to train you so you can use one of their machines during a slack period to make the springs yourself

[Bob Hall]

but can they put you in contact with an expert who operates outside the RTM?
also, resources for rail carriage restoration are so thin on the ground, the ARHS (ACT) and RTM, and the new NSW Rail Heritage body are supposed to share resources.
in the US there would be philanthopists falling over themselves to provide the $$. Australia has a totally different culture grounded on totally different expectations of Goverenment support for health, the arts and projects like yours.
the question has to be asked ... what does the ARHS need to make the springs themselves?
You have probably already investigated the possibility of getting a mattress factory to make the springs or to train you so you can use one of their machines during a slack period to make the springs yourself

Ian, Unfortunately, the rail preservation groups don't talk to one another all that much and RTM are one of the worst offenders. I actually started a yahoo group to get preservationists together to share knowledge, experience etc. RTM was one of the groups invited to join but I got zero response. I haven't given up though; I'm trying other means. RTM's past-President was an old friend from our rallying days in the early 80s, but sadly, he passed away a few months ago and I'm trying to cultivate new contacts. I haven't delved deeply into the spring issue yet, but the bloke from Padgham's looked at some samples at the Canberra WWW show and said they don't make springs in such a light gauge wire any more. We do have a mattress maker here in Canberra and I like your idea of approaching them, although the cynic in me says they probably get them made in China these days. Nonetheles, I'll try them; you never know. Cheers, Bob