Language! (words change meaning)

[pmcgee]

On the BBC's "My Word" radio program on Sunday, the lady devised the meaning of "egregious" from its latin root "grex" = flock.

I thought that was a neat derivation ... and also detected a bit of a story.

I had heard it in the context of an "egregious mistake" ... which is a nice step away from "out from the flock" ... but ...

the meaning has changed over time.

egregious - Wiktionary


Adjective

egregious (comparative more egregious, superlative most egregious)

1. Exceptional, conspicuous, outstanding, most usually in a negative fashion.

   The student has made egregious errors on the examination.

    [quotations ▼]
2. Outrageously bad.

[edit]Usage notes

The negative meaning arose in the late 16th century, probably originating in sarcasm. Before that, it meant outstanding in a good way. Webster also gives “distinguished” as an archaic form, and notes that its present form often has an unpleasant connotation (e.g., "an egregious error"). It generally precedes such epithets as “rogue,” “rascal,” "ass," “blunderer” – but may also be used for a compliment, or even on its own: “Sir, you are egregious.”

[artme]

My wife is Brasillian and I often pick up on words that come from the latin and are much the same in English as in Portuguese.

Haven't checked the origins of vagabond But in Portuguese it seems to be a good insult for some person we would call a bludger.

[Needles]

My wife is Brasillian and I often pick up on words that come from the latin and are much the same in English as in Portuguese.

Haven't checked the origins of vagabond But in Portuguese it seems to be a good insult for some person we would call a bludger.

The origins in Portuguese would indeed be the same as in English, given that it is a cognate Indo-European language, and both derive much from Latin (and, interestingly, Sanskrit).
'Vagus' mean 'wandering' in Latin - the vagus nerve (CN X) is a cranial nerve that 'wanders' its way down to the abdomen ([extremely unfunny] joke while we were studying: if a tutor asks the autonomic innervation of something you can't recall, just say 'vagus' and you'll probably get it right)
The 'bond' bit is a gerundive suffix (from 'bundus'), i.e. a word derived from a verb but acting as a noun.

Thus 'vagabond' is 'someone who wanders'
i.e. a bum or bludger!

Who knew? Five years of Latin at secondary school (high school, for you Antipodeans) and a medical education help with linguistics!
I thought it was so useless at the time...

[Needles]

Also on topic, the word that always strikes me as having changed meaning most in a relatively short space of time is 'gay'.
Only forty or fifty years ago your parents would have been extremely happy to hear that you were gay, I hear now that one might think long and hard before making such a statement...!
It makes other words seem somewhat incongruous - what does a 'nosegay' do now?? The mind boggles...

[A Duke]

Yes, The Gay 90s has a very different meaning when referring to 1890s or 1990s.
Regards

[artme]

Thanks Needles!!

Also pertinent for vagrants!!!

I actually checked that out AFTER I had posted.

Have to work out how to do two things at once on the 'puter and save some time.

[pmcgee]

Yes, The Gay 90s has a very different meaning when referring to 1890s or 1990s.
Regards

Also ... not just the words, but the 'acceptable' ... hmmm, maybe 'common' ... usage changes too.

Cf: 'The Odd Angry Shot', 'Don's Party', 'Naked Vicar Show' for "queer" etc.

Maybe 'gay' came into usage because it was the least offensive alternative. (?)

Cheers,
Paul

[pmcgee]

[artme]

A wonderful post my friend!! Thank you for posting!!

I often have arguments with people about why we don't have phonetic spelling
in English as in other languages such as Portuguese, which is very phonetic in
it's spelling.

Those videos answer the point beautifully. Another good example is sign, signal,
insignia.

Some words, ghost and knight for example were originally pronounced pretty much
the way they are spelled, ( or spelt if you like ). Remember in "Monty Python and the
Quest Fr the Holy Grail" how the Frenchman berated the the English K-nig-hts?

[pmcgee]

OK ... I've heard St. Roy say "queue d'aronde" ... french for dovetail ...

but only just now the penny drops. Queue. Tail. Duh ... as in "a line to see a movie" ... "a tail" ... neat.

but then I come across queue translation English | French dictionary | Reverso ...

- "avoir la queue entre les jambes" - have your tail between your legs = have the tail enter the legs.


- "finir en queue de poisson" - end abruptly = finish in a fish-tail?!

- "rond comme une queue de pelle" - drunk as a skunk = round as the tail/handle of a shovel ?!?!

- "histoire sans queue ni tête" - cock and bull story = story without a head or tail !!

[Bushmiller]

A wonderful post my friend!! Thank you for posting!!

I often have arguments with people about why we don't have phonetic spelling
in English as in other languages such as Portuguese, which is very phonetic in
it's spelling.

Those videos answer the point beautifully. Another good example is sign, signal,
insignia.

Some words, ghost and knight for example were originally pronounced pretty much
the way they are spelled, ( or spelt if you like ). Remember in "Monty Python and the
Quest Fr the Holy Grail" how the Frenchman berated the the English K-nig-hts?

Arthur

George Bernard Shaw gave phonetic spelling a pretty good go without success in pome-land. He had a little more luck with the Americans where they were already struggling with English spelling .

Regards
Paul

[Sawdust Maker]

I have a tweogan about all this!

[pmcgee]

I have a tweogan about all this!

Had to look it up. Nice. tweogan: doubt | AlphabetSatchel's Blog
Do you pronounce it 'twigan' ?
The link gives Old English tweon=two ... I'm guessing that is pronounced "twin" ... --> twins

[Bushmiller]

I have a tweogan about all this!

. I would have had to look that up too if Paul hadn't supplied a link

Regards
Paul

[SAISAY]

"To tell you the truth"
Has that been changed to inflict that the person is usually telling lies?