Language! (words change meaning)

[pmcgee]

I thought there was another thread around on the meanings of words - but I can't find it.

Words change meaning over time. I've heard heaps of them ... make little notes ... lose them ...

There was a link to this article on the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.
The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery

The thing that caught my eye was the first draft of James Madison ...

"but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person."

I realise now that is referring to a Conscientious Objector.

Af first I took it as someone really keen on tooling up

Now ... where are those notes ...

[artme]

An interesting point, indeed.

You are right. Language changes, as do word meanings.

That, however, does not excuse absolutely incorrect grammar and the mangling
of accepted phrases.

I am always p... off by those who say "between x to y' instead of "between x and y".
I have heard even more mangled versions.

How come some of our most noted TV presenters are sometimes so ignorant of such matters.

I've started. Best stop now!!

[enelef]

Oh Artme, Artme, Artme.

There is no need to constantly use correct grammar in fictional writings.
So why should we hold TV presenters and Journalists to higher ideal than that to which they aspire to?

[AlexS]

...that to which they aspire to?

Redundant "to".

[enelef]

Arghhh - Guilty as hell - your honour -

Guess there is nothing more to do than retire to the shed......

[pmcgee]

"Bonfire" - this off the radio - and some poking around on the internet.

The suggestion was that, pre-abattoirs, the towns-folk would gather the remains of animals culled for dinner in the town square and burn them all together in one go ... hence "bone-fire".

Later on to take on a more sinister meaning for "bone-fire" with the burning of witches or religious heretics.

Until much later ... big happy celebration. "Bon-fire"
__

Reading up a bit it seems more complicated than that explanation ... many cultures having rituals around fires going back forever. But I found two interesting quotes:

1. 1677: Letter from Charles Hatton describing 17 November celebrations, quoted by Cressy, 1989: 177

"mighty bonfires and the burning of a most costly pope, carried by four persons in divers habits, and the effigies of two devils whispering in his ears, his belly filled with live cats who squalled most hideously as soon as they felt the fire; the common saying all the while it was the language the pope and the devil in a dialogue betwixt them."

Oooh.

2. Urbandictionary.com

Bonfire: a gathering of 3 or more gingers.

[chambezio]

I must have been taught English at school by some anal teachers because now if I hear anyone using the wrong word or what ever, makes me squirm.
My Dad was born in 1914, he would pronounce the word basic as "bassic". I was taught bAsic"
Another one is controversy, there is more emphasis on the last half of the word now
hen there is the miss use of the word then/than
I was taught " This is better than that" as apposed to "This better then that" Even Americans have trouble getting it the right way round.
What about "cool'? I grew up with knowing it was a measurement of temperature. Or how Maynard G Krebbs was described. Now he was cool.
The over use/miss use of awsome
One could go on and on

[pmcgee]

I like Robin Williams - Science Show - Radio National.

He always very deliberately says ... "Isss-ue" as opposed to "Ishue"

"Shed-ule" vs "Sked-ule".

My dad from queensland was for "Cassel" vs "Car-sel".
Mind you ... they also said "Fill-em" for a movie show.


Paul

[Bushmiller]

Oh dear Paul

Guess what you have opened here?

Can of worms.jpg

Language does indeed change over time, but it also varies at the same time just because of dialects and indeed american, australian and pommy english.

One of my favourites from Shakespeare (it was the day I was paying attention at school) was when on hearing of Fulvia's death Cleopatra mischeviously asks "can Fulvia die?"

So what I hear you say, but Fulvia is Anthony's ex and Cleopatra of course is having it off with Anthony. "Die" in Billy S's time had the same conotation as "come" does for us today . Queen Cleo was casting aspertions on Fulvia's ability to reach a sexual climax thus making her out to be a cold, sexless witch (sounds like).

So next time you say "I'd die for a beer," remember Anthony and Cleo and be careful to whom you are speaking .

Regards
Paul

[pmcgee]

Google Ngram Viewer

This was linked to in the context of discussing a German phrase ... and I thought it might provide some fun ...

The occurence of "rebate" and "rabbet" in American English over the last 200 years.

Interesting that it should change after the Civil War instead of after Independence ?!?


Paul

[rwbuild]

....and of course (as opposed to cause) lets not forget our illustrious leader and the big bowling alley acka 'hyperbowl' as opposed to hyperbole

[Sturdee]

.... our illustrious leader

Peter.

[chambezio]

I was watching my hero Norm a while back and he was talking about making windows. He referred to a member being a"muntin", not a mullion as we would have here. It was such a strange sounding word, made me wonder about its origin
My daughter reckons I am on a quest to have as much machinery as Norm. I told her "she was dreamin". (to coin a phrase)
Another great line from a great Aussie movie "The Odd Angry Shot", was when they were out on patrol and stopped for a breather in thick hot steamy jungle, their clothes stuck to them trough sweat, faces striped with cammo paint and John Jarrat says to his mates in a whisper "What I would give for a Passiona".
I thought that would be appropriate being Australia Day Weekend

[rwbuild]

Peter.

My subtle sarcasm

[pmcgee]

John Jarrat says to his mates in a whisper "What I would give for a Passiona".
I thought that would be appropriate being Australia Day Weekend

Cottee's Cordial - Story Beginnings