Shellac primer/sealer?

[Lplates]

Hi Folks,

I started on my new project this week. It will be a hardwood/plywood chest, about 1200 long by 600 square on the ends. Basically the hardwood will form the frame for the edges and the plywood will be dado'd into the hardwood for strength to fill the panels between the frame.

Anyway, i will finish the hardwood with shellac and i intend to paint the plywood to complement the wooden frame. I don't really like the look of painted plywood as it's a bit rough, i'm using CD ply. So my thought was to use shellac to seal and sand back the ply until it's relatively smooth and then paint it. However when i went to buy the paint at the big B old mate on the paint desk said that shellac wasn't a good option because "it's too soft, it bleeds through and it's not compatible with acryllics because it's metho based".

Now i'm no expert but in my experience with shellac it usually sets pretty hard, it doesn't bleed at all and from what i've read on this forum you can cover it in pretty much anything once it's set since the metho has evaporated off.
Anyone got any experience with using shellac as a sealer?

Cheers
Mat

[antiphile]

You are absolutely right with your cynicism! With the correct cut, shellac is an absolutely wonderful sealer and can be used even as a grain filler. It is compatible with oil-based finishes and water-based (and acrylic) finishes. It does NOT bleed through. Your advisor from B is speaking through his rear end.

There are videos on YouTube by a guy called Charles Neil. He knows his stuff and is really good when it comes to finishing timber. He is also a huge fan of shellac. Check them out if you have any doubts (but ignore his really bad toupee!).

Cheers
Phillip

[wood artist]

you are right . I have sealed many pieces with shellac and had no problems . In fact i would recommend sealing with shellac to avoid bleeding through . I have used it under lacquer precat plastic even estapol 7008 and oil paints , in fact most finishes. To fill the grain why not use wood filler . It is easier and after leaving overnight you can do any thing with it . I always fill on any piece that needs the grain filled . It makes the pulling of the lacquer so much faster and gives a professional finish. Sorry should have said i am a french polisher and have just retired after 50 years in the trade .
Barry

[Lplates]

Thanks Phillip and Barry.

Glad to hear my thoughts confirmed. I just smiled and nodded along while he gave me his opinion on shellac. Thankfully i've used it before so I knew what he was saying wasn't exactly correct.

I'll try it out and post some pictures under the general woodworking forum (f11) once i've made some progress on the project.

Cheers
Mat

[antiphile]

Mat: So glad you got clarification, especially from Barry. Although, I must admit, you may have to take his advice with a huge grain of salt. I mean really! As if anyone who has specialised in French Polishing for only 50 years would have a clue about anything to do with shellac.

Barry: To be honest, I don't normally use shellac as a grain filler. But I read about the technique and did a few experiments on some home projects, and I have to admit I was really happy with the results (one on MDF prior to painting, one on Tassie Oak, and one on a very porous and poorly selected length of Meranti). However, admittedly, it's not the normal way I fill grain if its needed.

Cheers
Phil

[gyropilot]

As has been mentioned above, you should have no problems with using Shellac as a sealer. I spray nearly everything (including shellac) and thinners based lacquer (10 minute fast dry) goes over it well, as does many other finishes.....

Geoff

[chambezio]

Its a very old and often used trick that house painters have relied on since paint was invented. You can get and out of a job quick using shellac as a bleed sealer/undercoat. Though for grain filling I would opt for sanding sealer. Quick building and drying characteristics. compatible with just about everything

[Rwinston]

Shellac is a great sealer, i do allot of restoration work and i find shellac is one of the best things to use.
its also great if u have had silicon products used on the furniture before hand 5 or 6 Dust Coats of shellac stops any separation before applying a single pack polyurethane sealer over the top.

[Arron]

you are right . I have sealed many pieces with shellac and had no problems . In fact i would recommend sealing with shellac to avoid bleeding through . I have used it under lacquer precat plastic even estapol 7008 and oil paints , in fact most finishes. To fill the grain why not use wood filler . It is easier and after leaving overnight you can do any thing with it . I always fill on any piece that needs the grain filled . It makes the pulling of the lacquer so much faster and gives a professional finish. Sorry should have said i am a french polisher and have just retired after 50 years in the trade .
Barry

Barry, theres a couple of things here I was hoping you could clarify. Firstly, what product would you usually use as a 'wood filler' ? And secondly what is meant by 'pulling of the lacquer' ?

cheers, and I'm glad to see someone with your experience on board.
Arron

[Rod Gilbert]

To this day with all the technology evolving every day that there is still no better sealer than shellac and it does prevent bleed through of most type's of finish and also the natural resins that occur on the surface of timber eg knot's in pine that weep resin's.
regards Rod.

[wood artist]

Hi i was asked to clarify what i meant by the term pulling of lacquer. It is when you make a soup of 10% lacquer 30% thinners and ad metho to this until the solution starts to go cloudy. Roughly 65% You then use a polish rubber or a wad of cotton wool enclosed in a calico fabric as you would a polish rubber to soften the lacquer on the high grain to pull it to the hollows. To do this you first work in circles , then across the grain and finish off with the grain . this procedure takes time as you must be careful not to leave rubber marks in the finish . I do this even if the finish is matt as i want a perfect surface . in gloss i like to stain ,seal and apply 1 or 2 coats of gloss then add a little f.r.s. stain to lacquer to colour the job then 2 more coats of gloss , pull the surface and then another coat of lacquer . Now this finish looks the same as a french polish but is much more durable . The wood filler i use is either the product from Wattyl or one i make myself should i want a special colour .
Barry

[Arron]

Great, thanks. I had heard of 'pulling over' before but hadnt really heard it explained in a workflow context.
I tried this today, it worked well in terms of levelling the surface, but I found it impossible to get the marks out. I suspect thats because I only had rags which I used balled up, not a rubber.
cheers
Arron

[Lboccu]

Look for wax free shellac cut 1-1 with denatured alcohol- beautiful results