English vs American

[Bushmiller]

In the thread below, where Derek Cohen has supplied one of his very informative reviews on the new HNT Dado Plane, the subject came up as to whether a dado, which is the american term, should be referred to as that. In Australia we traditionally called them housing joints or, in building, trenched joints.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/r...-plane-161699/

Rather than hijack Derek's review I thought that we might be able to discuss this here instead. Of course this is not limited to housing /dado joints, but anything where there is a discrepancy between australian and american interpretation of the english language. If we can confine it a little to woodworking that would be good, but I'm not really hopeful there .

Just on the original issue something to consider is that Terry Gordon's plane is indeed called a dado plane. This I expect is because he hopes to sell his product to the american market and that markey in particular likes to feel comfortable with the name.

The big issue is "Should we maintain independency of our version of english?"

Having loaded the gun, I propose to sit back and duck the bullets .

Regards
Paul

[A Duke]

That's a groovy start.

How about Rabbit and Rebate ?

Regards

[FenceFurniture]

Just stand that new granite boulder of yours on its side (bottom facing the fusillade), and you'll be right for the bullets.

Terry does indeed face a conundrum. The word Dado means nothing to me at all in a descriptive sense, but "trench" obviously does. However, the name of "Cross grain Trenching Plane" is a tad cumbersome. O'course, Terry has far more to worry about than pleasing us pedantic old farts - he wants to sell 'em. So, given that we know what a Dado is, and a name to satisfy us is cumbersome, I say that he's given them the best name he could under the circumstances. Commercial realities and all that.

[ch!ppy]

Greg, well i'd agree he has marketing to the USA to consider, and i figure that must of been at least part of his reason, but trenching plane is just fine with me, it doesnt have to have 'cross grain' written in front. because a plane that grooves with the grain is called a plough plane, (or a plow plane to the USA). . . could go on but not wanting to confuse it further. . .

cheers
chippy

[FenceFurniture]

Greg, well i'd agree he has marketing to the USA to consider, and i figure that must of been at least part of his reason, but trenching plane is just fine with me, it doesnt have to have 'cross grain' written in front. because a plane that grooves with the grain is called a plough plane, (or a plow plane to the USA), if on the edge its a rebate plane (fillister etc) of course in Oz


cheers
chippy

No worries then Chippy - Trenching Plane it is.

[jimbur]

Well Paul, you could always plead the fifth. And yes, some idiots do use it across here.

[Bushmiller]

Just stand that new granite boulder of yours on its side (bottom facing the fusillade), and you'll be right for the bullets.

What a marvellous idea . I am looking for uses to justify the purchase . I'll bet it will withstand anything up to 50cal. You blokes can be pretty firey and I'm thinking perhaps I should have bit the bullet (sorry) and forked out for the larger block.

Here's another one for you. We talk in terms of timber as 100 x 50 whereas americans would say 50 x by 100 . Better make that 2 x 4 . You may recall that they put the month first in the calendar too. Is this done just to be different, cantankerous or just plain bloody minded?

I know that IanW in the other thread alluded to the language being dynamic and in a constant state of flux. I am with that whilever new product requires description, but why change for the sake of it.

We all have a spot of bother with the english of Shakespeare. We have even more of head scratch with Chaucer's english and by the time we delve back to old english it is unrecogniseable and incomprehensible to us.

That was because various nations kept bashing up the poms and imposing their language on them. This is not the case with the americans, at least not the bashing part, well not us....deep water, help, help.

Of course we do have our own Dados (Cameron and Andrew and there may be another floating somewhere.)

Regards (deeply entrenched, not dadoed, behind a brick wall somewhere in Oz)
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

....deep water, help, help.
Paul

Can you swim?

Of course we do have our own Dados (Cameron and Andrew and there may be another floating somewhere.)

Lachlan.

[wheelinround]

Dado Architecture

Dado Furniture

Why not Grove, Gutter, Channel, Trench, Slot.

[Scott]

The big issue is "Should we maintain independency of our version of english?"l

Wrong way to pose the question which should of read, "should Americans be allowed to use their own hacked version of the English language". Seriously, when I read an American website I think they're illiterate, phonetically spelling everything is immature. I consider the way we speak is historically correct. Screw the way the yanks spell and write

[jimbur]

Wrong way to pose the question which should of read, "should Americans be allowed to use their own hacked version of the English language". Seriously, when I read an American website I think they're illiterate, phonetically spelling everything is immature. I consider the way we speak is historically correct. Screw the way the yanks spell and write

Too right mate. Everyone else is a drongo.

[IanW]

Hmm, lots of heat, but little light! Who says the way we spell or name anything is "right", or even has historical precedence? We Aussies have corrupted & added to the English language we inherited, both enriching & impoverishing it, depending on point of view.

Spelling is a real can of worms! A man who was much cleverer with the language than any of us (George Bernard Shaw) thought English spelling was idiotic and not only doesn't reflect the way a large number of words are pronounced, it's hopelessly inconsistent. He offered a large amount of money to anyone who managed to get phonetic spelling widely accepted. No-one has ever claimed the prize, since surprise, surprise, no-one will agree on whose phones get spelt. So spare a thought for the poor sods who have to learn English as a foreign language!

I used to fuss about the 'purity' of the language, but it slowly dawned on my dim wits that I was fighting a pointless & losing battle. As someone has suggested already, if we could visit our rellies of a few hundred years back, we'd be mutually unintelligible, and likewise if we could go a few hundred years into the future, no doubt. The only languages that remainh static are those no longer in daily use. I do resent the corruption of technical terms because it reduces the precision they are supposed to impart. However substituting one word for another isn't quite the same, as long as we agree it means the same thing. Let's face it, from time to time, certain nations have been dominant and stamped their lingo on large parts of the planet - ask the Italians, Spanish, Portugese, French & Romanians (have I left anyone out?) if the Romans ever did anything for them.

Oh yeah, & how 'Dado' came to be applied to a trench is anyone's guess. It's original meaning, which Wheelin' has directed us to, is equivalent to 'wainscotting' (which in turn is a corruption of middle English for wagon sides!). But it clearly was applied to trenching at some stage in Nth America, and since they are now the second-largest nation of English users (after India), I guess they will have a bit of influence on what gets rit & sed in all the various media dealing with woodwork for the forseeeable future....

Cheers,

[pmcgee]

It's a great topic ... over the years I've heard Radio National (Lingua Franca and other programs) and the academic lady from "Can We Help" - Kate Burridge Can We Help? - KATE BURRIDGE

She used to be on local ABC radio regularly, and she is great - can reel off examples and counter-examples from the distant past when people ring in to complain about grammar and spelling.

I have heard that US 'english' is a 'purer' or at least earlier form as it was taken out of the UK context back at ... 17xx? help me out here ... and that at some stage (1800s? 1900s?) an educational philosophy was applied to set a national standard and deliberately try to make it more uniform and simpler than the somewhat wacky way we and the poms have it ... so "color" "splendor" "realize" etc

But I definitely prefer our way ... the other system might have some logic to it, but it has been tainted - nay ruined - by association with americans (snicker)

I'm a bit indifferent to much of it, but I will not use "z" instead of "s" and I won't use "vise" ... which is curious but I'm sticking to it.

I understand 'vise' has a specificity to it, but
- the yanks use it
- I grew up with 'vice'
- the word looks perfectly fine on the page
... I'm sticking to it.

(Do you find some word stick out and irk you when they are 'wrong' ? ... eg 'realize')

I hope this entire forum drives our US friends halfway batty
It's like broadcasting the BBC into Burma or North Korea ... so they can learn to speak and spell proper

No one has mentioned 'Aluminum' yet ... I found out that they spell it that way ... thus dooming themselves to look stupid forever.

I'm not getting excited over all thus - I'm really not - "Centre, centre, centre, centre, centre" !!

And **PETROL** is NOT A **GAS** !!!

Sorry. I found the pills ... I'll be ok.
Paul

[pmcgee]

I'm not getting excited over all thus

Looks like I just started a thread on NZ english

Just kidding ... let's get some Fush and Chups.


Two other quick points ...

Watching the Canadian woodworker - Rob Cosman - you hear "aboot" for "about" and interestingly get the "th" sound in both "leng-th" and "heigh-th". I think the RoughCut TV guy says that also.

Our spoken language has certainly changed - when I hear old recordings from the early 1900s - re the wars or Billy Hughes or just ordinary people there is an "old australian" sound to it ... you know ... like anyone from Queensland today.

[A Duke]

The one that gets me is zee instead of zed.
(Some one will be calling this thread raciest next) Our American brothers will be waking up soon and the we will be sorted out.
Regards