In the Market Place, what do the Moderators think that 'PM Sent' means?

[adeben]

I recently sought further information re an item for sale in the Market Place. I did so via a PM, and then posted a message 'PM sent' to indicate that I had done so. This seemed to bring a rebuke from the Moderator, and a request to read the rules re posting. I have done that, and, given that I was not making an offer to buy, I don't know how else I could have proceeded. I thought a PM was the appropriate way to get further information, and that it was also courteous to let the person know that a PM had been sent. Had I been offering to buy, I would have posted to that effect. Any advice on how to get further information on an item?

[Sturdee]

I recently sought further information re an item for sale in the Market Place. I did so via a PM, and then posted a message 'PM sent' to indicate that I had done so. This seemed to bring a rebuke from the Moderator, and a request to read the rules re posting. I have done that, and, given that I was not making an offer to buy, I don't know how else I could have proceeded. I thought a PM was the appropriate way to get further information, and that it was also courteous to let the person know that a PM had been sent. Had I been offering to buy, I would have posted to that effect. Any advice on how to get further information on an item?

Rather then sending a pm I would have asked the question by posting it in the thread. Then everyone is aware of your interest and the answer to your question should also be posted there. A pm should only be used in these cases for exchanging details once an offer has been made and accepted.

BTW I'm not a Mod but this is what I see should be done in these cases.


Peter.

[FenceFurniture]

I recently sought further information re an item for sale in the Market Place. I did so via a PM, and then posted a message 'PM sent' to indicate that I had done so. This seemed to bring a rebuke from the Moderator, and a request to read the rules re posting. I have done that, and, given that I was not making an offer to buy, I don't know how else I could have proceeded. I thought a PM was the appropriate way to get further information, and that it was also courteous to let the person know that a PM had been sent. Had I been offering to buy, I would have posted to that effect. Any advice on how to get further information on an item?

The moderator more than likely thought you were saying "PM sent" meant an offer to buy. In the past there have been several bunfights opened up this way, so the rule changed to say you had to say "I'll buy it" in the thread, and only then did "PM sent" constitute something. I guess if you said "PM sent requesting more info" you wouldn't have been jumped upon (not that you knew that). If the Mod in question doesn't see this then don't take it personally, just "doing their job" to keep any fights at bay.

[DJ’s Timber]

Basically what Peter said.

The problem is, no one knows what the PM Sent is for, it could be saying please send bank details.

If a PM is sent, it should say something like,

PM Sent for Postage Cost Quote

or

PM Sent for Info on Motor.

By putting everything in the thread, it keeps it all transparent in the case of a dispute etc as we Mods cannot access the PM system.

[corbs]

Does this also mean that all negotiations regarding price should also be carried out for everyone to see in the thread?

[Sir Stinkalot]

Just out of interest what happens in the following situation?

Potential buyer X sends a PM to the seller (and posts on the forum) asking about postage/colour/condition/whatever - trying to seek further information prior to committing to the sale as perhaps the initial post did not contain sufficient information for buyer X to decide if the item was suitable.

Potential buyer Y sends a PM (and posts on the forum) stating that they would like to buy the item.

Is it just a gentleman's agreement between all parties that buyer X got in first with the PM (post) and has the opportunity to find out the necessary information from the seller before deciding to make the purchase or not?

[Jim Carroll]

Just out of interest what happens in the following situation?

Potential buyer X sends a PM to the seller asking about postage/colour/condition/whatever - trying to seek further information prior to committing to the sale as perhaps the initial post did not contain sufficient information for buyer X to decide if the item was suitable.

Potential buyer Y sends a PM stating that they would like to buy the item.

Is it just a gentleman's agreement between all parties that buyer X got in first with the PM and has the opportunity to find out the necessary information from the seller before deciding to make the purchase or not?

Michael this is why we ask all pms etc asking advice etc be posted on the forum so everyone knows whos in line for the purchase

And yes it is a gentlemans agreement that the seller advise everyone whos on first etc

We need it transparent so there is no bun fights as DJ indicated.

[RETIRED]

As said above. You will notice that there is now a new prefix that you should be able to access via edit (if it falls within the time frame) called "pending" meaning that negotiations are taking place and the sale depends on these. It can be changed if the deal falls through.

[NCArcher]

Just out of interest what happens in the following situation?

Potential buyer X sends a PM to the seller (and posts on the forum) asking about postage/colour/condition/whatever - trying to seek further information prior to committing to the sale as perhaps the initial post did not contain sufficient information for buyer X to decide if the item was suitable.

Potential buyer Y sends a PM (and posts on the forum) stating that they would like to buy the item.

Is it just a gentleman's agreement between all parties that buyer X got in first with the PM (post) and has the opportunity to find out the necessary information from the seller before deciding to make the purchase or not?

If buyer X didn't post "I'll take it" or similar then Y should get the sale. If X wanted first dibs he should post "I'll take it, provided postage isn't too expensive" or whatever.
PM's should only be used once a deal is struck to iron out the details or swap contact info etc.
Well that's my interpretation anyway. I've witnessed the blues over who posted the first PM and they aren't pretty Not just on this forum either. I frequent a few that have the same PM rules for the market place.

[Sir Stinkalot]

Ok thanks - no problem. I perhaps confused/complicated the issue I was trying to clarify by raising PM's.

The aspect I was more interested in, and trying to establish the general forum understanding on, was that if buyer X expresses interest but has not been able to commit due to having to seek further details from the seller, that there is a gentleman's agreement between buyer X, buyer Y and the seller that discussions are permitted to continue between buyer X and the seller until buyer X pulls out, leaving second dibs to buyer Y.

This appears to be correct, which was my previous understanding. I have not had an issue previously but I have noticed that it seems to happen often and reading the rules I didn't see the issue covered. The "pending" prefix sounds good and it would be useful if the seller posts that the sale is pending with buyer X so that buyer Y (and others) know what is going on.

Cheers

Stinky

[doug3030]

While I agree with the above that all offers and requests for further info be in the thread, I can tell you from personal experience that if you are the first to post "I will take it" in the thread then you still might not get the item if the seller and another buyer are unscrupulous. Despite their best intentions the mods have no means of enforcing the rules of the marketplace if the seller refuses to cooperate.

It will only work when all those involved in the transaction are gentlemen and act honourably within the rules set down by the moderators.

Doug

[Yonnee]

In reality, the forum is just a means for people to place a free advertisement and a means of contact for articles they have to offload, and/or articles they'd like to obtain. The Administrators and Moderators have no control how people conduct their transaction once this contact is made. As Doug has stated, we would hope that everyone completes these transactions with honour and respect, but ultimately, we have no control over human behavior.

As for "PM Sent", we have absolutely no idea what this means as we cannot read minds, but for the Originator of the post, if you have offered to buy the item, it would mean you have no case to answer if the item was sold from under you (as per the rules) as you haven't made your intentions publicly known. A P.M. should only be used for exchanging personal details as any information enquired on the item might be useful for all concerned.

[adeben]

In response to Yonnee:
I thought I had made it clear in my post that I was not intending to buy, just seeking further information. If another poster was prepared to buy immediately without further information, then, as far as I'm concerned, the seller can take that offer. I never imagined that using 'PM sent' would or should give me any priority to buy: It's perfectly clear that being first to post something like 'I'll take it' should give priority.
However, there was a question raised above about sending a PM to discuss a price reduction. I don't believe that such negotiation should be done via viewable posts, because it allows other folks to enter the process, which will muddy the notion of 'priority', and almost inevitably will encourage gazumping.

[Scott]

This thread has raised the issue of conduct when selling/buying. Unfortunately I've been the recipient of one dodgy buy on this forum however the opportunity to provide feedback (apart from creating an inflammatory thread) on the transaction is lacking. This would provide the opportunity for others to be forewarned. Thoughts?

[doug3030]

However, there was a question raised above about sending a PM to discuss a price reduction. I don't believe that such negotiation should be done via viewable posts, because it allows other folks to enter the process, which will muddy the notion of 'priority', and almost inevitably will encourage gazumping.

I agree. I have on a couple of occasions made an offer by PM but not before the thread has been sitting around for a while with no offers to buy at the asked price. I would not make such an offer in the open forum as I believe it is against the spirit of the rules of no auctions or "best offer" policy.

As for gazumping, it has happened to me. The seller even posted "Sold to Doug" in the thread. I received a copy of the post in my email notifications. He was then contacted by another unscrupulous member who probably offered a higher price. The seller then edited the post to say that it was sold to the other buyer. This was despite the proof that I put forward in the thread and I have been assured that there were several PM's to the seller from administrators and moderators.

Personally I will not do business with either the seller or the buyer involved. https://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/c...-point-150754/

Having said that, nearly all other transactions I have made through the forum marketplace have been great experiences. I had a small amount of trouble with a router I bought which had some damage that the seller was not aware of but after some negotiation that sale ended up with both of us happy.

Unfortunately it is the few who spoil it for the many who try to do the right thing.

Doug