Grain filling before Oiling

[Harry72]

Because its to disapate the sweat/oils that your fingers leave on it... does that sound good enough for a guess!

[surfdabbler]

Looking at my Yamaha guitar that sits, forlorny next to my desk, the finish is completely flat, and the grain is definitely filled.............except on the fretboard. I wonder why?

My best guess would be that any surface finish on the fretboard would scratch up and look patchy very quickly. The strings put a fair amount of wear between the frets. Look at an old well played guitar, and you'll see wear marks on the fretboard. It's also pretty important that the fretboard is not slippery, so the strings don't slip around too easily. So, the fingerboard is made of a nice hardwood (rosewood is common on nice guitars) and finished with a very light oil, or possibly not finished at all, and left up to finger oils to finish it over time. Heavy oils get sticky over time, and nobody wants to regularly unstring their guitar just to give the fingerboard a repolish...

[Snapper_Kev]

Being a complete novice to all this you can take what I say with a grain of salt. I have just sent this e-mail off to organoil to see what I've done wrong with the project I'm currenty working on. Mite not be all that relevant to this post but I'd thought I'd add it anyway.

To: Customer Support - Organoil
I have recently finished applying Organoils' Hard Burnishing Oil to a Merbau (Kwila) table top and did not get the result I expected.
I had sanded down to 600 wet & dry and kept the last pad "dirty" (not dusting off). I applied the first coat of Organoil with a cotton cloth and allowed 2 hours to soak in. I then applied a light second coat with a clean cloth, waited 5 mins and massaged with the last pad of 600grit wet & dry. As soon as I started sanding with the 600 paper the "finish" became quite dull loosing the shine it had when the oil was first applied. I sanded with the 600 to finish the surface and then changed to 1200grit wet and dry and continued. I applied a small amount of oil to the paper during this stage.

What I found and what I did not expect is that when I started sanding, firstly with the 600 and then continued with the 1200, I created very little "slurry". The paper seemed to glide over the top of the wood and achieve nothing other than removing the gloss from the finish.

I now have the complete piece which is quite dull in appearance. I was hoping for a glossy / shiny finish.

Have I done something wrong and is there anything I can do now to try to bring out a glossy / shiny finish?

[gatiep]

Just a thought. Could it be that the 600 you used was totally spent, so didn't cut enough to give you a slurry and then the 1200 was too fine at that stage to give the results you are chasing. This is a total thumb suck though. I'm interested to read the Organoil reply.

[Different]

Adam, please post some pics of your oil & wax finish and let us know how you think it went.

Ross, by chance I was talking today with a luthier (sp?) about how he finishes his musical instruments. One of the things he does is grain filling, to achieve that really smooth finish they have. So I suppose there are some kinds of woodworking that "need" grain filling in the finishing process?

Richard

You are quiet right I dont bother to state that all my views popular or otherwise apply to furniture only as that is where my interest lies.
Most Pianos have a grain filled high gloss finish and as both a wood worker and a musician I have never seen one I realy like as a result of the finish process.
I suppose I should also have prefaced my comments with a statement that I am unashamedly a pain in the **** minimalist purist!

Ross

[Richardwoodhead]

Ross, I'm like you, I like the wood to look & feel natural, so don't grain fill. Just thought I'd pass on the comment about the musical instruments...

Snapper...... I'm going to go out on a limb here... Seems like there are 2 species of woodworkers. Those that can make organoil / tung oil finishes look good. And those that can't. My first couple of woodworking projects (tables) I used the organoil hard burnishing .... It looked like cr*p. I was really dissappointed. I lost all the wood grain.

If you search this forum, you'll find lots of discussion re different finishes. With the pure oils, I've seen guys work really hard for days and still only get a low sheen. To get a "glossy / shiny" finish with pure oils is, IMHO, almost impossible.

So I started using Oil / polyurethane mixes (Danish, Floor Seal). But then moved across to lacquer.

With the oil base you now have on the table, I suggest you go to the paint shop & buy a tin of Feast Watson Floor Seal. Apply 2 coats with a 320 orbital sand between coats. You'll get the shine you're chasing. Or get hold of the bible - this forum sponsor / Ubeaut, sell an excellent book on furniture finishing. Look at the options.

Good luck,

Richard

[LineLefty]

IF you check out this thread
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=16747
I've put the oil on as per instructions on the can. The wax is still to come.

Now, Im a bit confused here, I didnt realise that you *could* get a shiny glossy finish with oil. Thats not what I'm after. If I was I'd use a gloss finish ?!?

Ths is what I did.
-Sanded with AlumnOxide to 240.
-The switch to Wet&Dry up to 600.
-Wiped it down with tack cloth and then a slightly damp cloth to get all the dust.
-Got an old T-shirt and twisted it frenchpolish style.
-Soaked the piece in oil. I mean slapped it on.
-Wiped excess off after I'd done the whole piece (there wasnt much really)
-Waited 45minutes (lunch)
-Applied another light coat of oil, I noticed at this stage that it wasnt soaking in, just sitting on top. With other woods in might take more coats.
-Got a clogged piece of 600W&D and ran over the whole piece again, at high speed.

Turned out great so far. Not high gloss, just a silky smooth 'wet look' satin finish.
This was all done with a sanding block, no power sanders, took me about 3hours.

As for the 'slurry'. I've got no idea what theyre talking about. An oiled 600W&D did not, and will not create a slurry.

[Different]

IF you check out this thread
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=16747
I've put the oil on as per instructions on the can. The wax is still to come.

Now, Im a bit confused here, I didnt realise that you *could* get a shiny glossy finish with oil. Thats not what I'm after. If I was I'd use a gloss finish ?!?

Ths is what I did.
-Sanded with AlumnOxide to 240.
-The switch to Wet&Dry up to 600.
-Wiped it down with tack cloth and then a slightly damp cloth to get all the dust.
-Got an old T-shirt and twisted it frenchpolish style.
-Soaked the piece in oil. I mean slapped it on.
-Wiped excess off after I'd done the whole piece (there wasnt much really)
-Waited 45minutes (lunch)
-Applied another light coat of oil, I noticed at this stage that it wasnt soaking in, just sitting on top. With other woods in might take more coats.
-Got a clogged piece of 600W&D and ran over the whole piece again, at high speed.

Turned out great so far. Not high gloss, just a silky smooth 'wet look' satin finish.
This was all done with a sanding block, no power sanders, took me about 3hours.

As for the 'slurry'. I've got no idea what theyre talking about. An oiled 600W&D did not, and will not create a slurry.

Nothing wrong with the process as far as i can see but I would usually do 2 things differently. I do not allow the taditional "tack up" time I rub right off as soon as I have applied the oil.
I would also repeat the process minus the sanding 3 to 7 times.

Ross

[PAH1]

Now, Im a bit confused here, I didnt realise that you *could* get a shiny glossy finish with oil. Thats not what I'm after. If I was I'd use a gloss finish ?!?

I would not say that you ever got a "gloss finish", more a good satin one with great depth, gloss angle is about 30-40 degrees when done well.

As for the 'slurry'. I've got no idea what theyre talking about. An oiled 600W&D did not, and will not create a slurry.

600 is easy to get a slurry from, by the time that you get out to 2000 it is a bit harder but you still get a film. It would be more noticeable if you used a clean 600 instead of a clogged one. You need to be careful using a clogged one, matching timber colours and not haveing in been used previously with oil and therefore hard when you run it over the surface.

I agree with ross about the number of coats, but I do use 2000w&d to drive it into the wood and then buff off before the next coat.

[LineLefty]

Thanks for the advice PAH, Ross.

Can I just get this clear, when you say repeat the process do you mean:

Lightly sand w 1200, more oil directly on the wood, let it tack, then get a clean 1200 and go over it again. Then repeat for 2000. OR

Put some oil on the 1200wd and sand the whole thing.

The reason I ask is that the instructions explicitly say DO NOT add any more oil directly to the wood once it reaches saturation point.

Thanks

[PAH1]

Adam

Yeah I know the bit about the instructions, the problem is if the piece is any size at all that there is not enough on the paper to keep it going, so I apply a light sparing coat and then use the paper over the top. I sand to 600 oil sand, go to 800 oil sand, 1200 etc. By the time that you get to 2000 you do not need much oil at all and I tend to finish with a near dry sand with 2000 a few days later and then give it a good buff off.