Be very careful.....

[Handyjack]

1/ If you need something NOW, go to a brick and mortar store and buy off the shelf. If it out of stock you need to go else where. Yes it cost time but you get it NOW.

2/ If an item is to be delivered, allow an extra day or two. Human beings and external factors can cause delays.

3/ Most traders try and do the right thing, but sometimes it goes pear shape. The service is only as good as the staff and the information they receive and interpret.

4/ Communicate, communicate and communicate. Perhaps if it had been a phone order backed up by an email (not ebay order) it might have worked out differently. Also see point 1.

[TORB]

I am happy to make comment on statements made that may be inaccurate, but as i said in my original post, "OK, now please wait whilst I put on my flame-proof underwear, as I am bound to cop flack and have people say its an over-reaction. I will let those posts go and not respond to them as I am not looking for a fight." so I will let a number of things said in a few of the preceding posts pass without comment.

We are all entitled to our opinions and sometimes debating them will serve no purpose.

I don't have a problem with how the retailer has managed the situation. They were very prompt with their responses to you and were willing to work with you until you stated to rant and rage, and I can see why the wheels started to turn slower as a response to your tone.

So do you think its perfectly acceptable to not refund money for six weeks, despite having stated that it will be done, because they don't like my tone?

As for the "response" being prompt, response is not confined to email. They did not respond promptly by sending the order as per thier own stated terms, they did not respond promptly to the order cancellation, they did not respond to my second email on Tuesday, they did not respond to my PayPal escalation request and they did not respond promptly, or even slowly to their own commitment to process a refund.

I was using my phone and couldn't work out how to include the "rolling eyes" smilie ..... I hope you didn't take it as a recommendation of what you should do.

As I stated earlier, "I was in the process of doing exactly that when you posted your response" and had already sent my email to Sydney Tools prior to reading your post (non-suggestion.)

Sorry I did read all of this. Correct me if I am wrong but the Item was to be sent that day via Australia post if it was B4 4 PM. Point one. How can that be cancelled the next day, you tell me. Point two Who in Gods name trusts Australia post. We now have a postal service contracted out. Lefty can be your postie provided he can ride a bike and read. Send money through the mail, chances are lefty will pocket it.
So who is to say what happened. Take the advice of above.

I can't let some of the points you made pass without comment.

Re point one, I see the process needs clarification. The order was placed on day one prior to 4pm so should have been sent that day as per Sydney Tools own stated terms, however the goods were not sent that day. On the morning of day two, prior to the order even being invoiced, I rang and cancelled it. Then confirmed in writing.

Re point two. You make a some pretty sweeping generalisations here. Firstly, in my experience it is no where near as bad as you state. Secondly, the local post office is not franchised out, and finally, I do trust Oz post and have found their service is generally excellent. Parcel Post items normally have a tracking number and over the last few years, I have had hundred of these parcels delivered, and touch wood, my loss rate for these tracked items is zero.

As far as parcel post speed is concerned, generally it is excellent, especially from Sydney which is almost always overnight. The exception being a few weeks prior to Christmas.

1/ If you need something NOW, go to a brick and mortar store and buy off the shelf. If it out of stock you need to go else where. Yes it cost time but you get it NOW.

Easy to say, but not so easy when its a 180 kilometre, often over three hour round trip.

2/ If an item is to be delivered, allow an extra day or two. Human beings and external factors can cause delays.

Correct, but suppliers should not make commitments they do not meet. If they are not sure they can meet them, they should not make the commitment in the first place. There is a big difference between an absolute stated commitment, and a "we try."

[munruben]

I am pleased you got your refund in full. I don't think you "won" anything, you got back what was yours in the first place.which the company said they were going to do in the first place.

I don't believe 6 weeks is a reasonable time to effect a refund but I believe that this delay was brought about by your own doing. Insulting people and ridiculing them, which you have done throughout your communication with the company, is not a mature way to approach any company or employee of a company to resolve a problem.You did this from the very onset of your contact with them and on several occasions in this thread have made nasty personal remarks about staff and the company.

You accuse the company or poorly handling your situation, I feel you handled your complaint poorly too and the matter would have been resolved much sooner if you had approached the matter in a more courteous manner

You went in straight off with guns blazing and if I had been involved with issuing a refund to your satisfaction, it would have been a long time coming too. They (the staff) are human too and deserve to be treated in a civilised manner, which in my opinion you didn't do.

Yes there are times when you have to get tough to get things done but in the first instance we usually use respect and courtesy to the people we are talking to.You don't have to bring the argument down to a personal level with staff and ridicule and insult them. They are only trying to do their job.

In an ideal world, it would be terrific if we were all perfect but unfortunately we are all human.

I don't think you did your cause much good in this instance.

[TORB]

I

They (the staff) are human too and deserve to be treated in a civilised manner, which in my opinion you didn't do.

Yes there are times when you have to get tough to get things done but in the first instance we usually use respect and courtesy to the people we are talking to.You don't have to bring the argument down to a personal level with staff and ridicule and insult them. They are only trying to do their job.

Respect is earned and is not an automatic right. Respect can also be a two way street.

To earn respect, a retailer's staff member should not out rightly lie to a customer, and I don't call anyone a liar lightly. To earn respect, they should do what the customer reasonably requests, like cancelling an order when asked to do so verbally. Or even cancelling it when it is requested in writing, which was done factually, firmly, but not aggressively.

I then received an email of apology and the promise of a refund. My response to that email was factual and not insulting, and even stated that the previous email from Sydney Tools went a long way to rectify the damage.

The next thing I find out is that not only has Sydney Tools failed to ship as per their own commitment, they had failed to act on my verbal request to cancel the order, and also failed to act on the written request, despite the fact they had plenty of time to cancel the transaction. And of course, the original guy I spoke to blatantly lied to me. For example, telling me the goods had been shipped the previous day when their own shipping records show it had not shipped, and then inventing a false reason why it takes two days to receive an order via AAE, and not one.

That's not a real good way for an organisation to earn the customers respect. It is also certainly not doing ones job, because if the staff had done there job, this would not have happened in the first place.

I could go on with more examples of staff not doing their jobs and not earning respect, but there is little point doing so as its unlikely further comment on this track will change either one of our opinions.

I will not be able to respond further till late Monday as I am going away for a few days.

[old pete]

Hi Torb,

I've read or probably more accurately scanned the correspondence in this thread. My advice would be to get over it and move on with life......it's a bit too short already!!

Old Pete

There are a few comments you have made that I can not let pass without a response.



I don't expect them to jump at my command, just do what they say they are going to do. They failed at that both comprehensively.



I don't think that Sydney Tools qualifies as a large organisation. A medium sized on possibly. Any organisation of that size in today's computer assisted environment that can't track an item is poorly run.



That's exactly what I am going to do. They breached the contractual terms and conditions of sale which, under the Trade Practices act, entitles me to cancel the deal and legally requires them to make a full refund.

They have had about six weeks to issue a refund of their own accord and despite having stated they would do so, have failed to live up to their commitment, until i threaten them with legal action. Even then, they got the amount wrong and wanted to charge me twice the real freight cost.

In all seriousness munruben, please tell me why I should accept letting them charge me $32.60 because they dropped the ball. Because that's is what this boils down to.

[billyt]

"I will not be able to respond further till late Monday as I am going away for a few days."


Tool shopping for that 'urgent' tool perhaps!

[BobL]

My advice would be to get over it and move on with life......it's a bit too short already!!

+1

[nihilism]

I agree with most of the posters above. They were one day late, life's too short, don't lose sleep over it.

[underfoot]

Time for a valium and a good lie down.

sage advice

As for winning ..... you got your money but you are not a winner . You got a result by using an aggressive tactics and really this forum. I trust the retailer will be continuing to check this thread and I would think they will gain more support than less.

I got the impression from your first post that this wasn't really a warning about online transactions... it seemed that you were just using the forum to gather disciples to share your rage ..

My advice would be to get over it and move on with life......it's a bit too short already!!

+2

[rustynail]

Ric, You never told us why the item was so urgent in the first place. 24hours seems like a very fine time line.

[rrobor]

If I could sum this thread up, it would be the seller one and you zero. Please read back all the posts here and use them as your jury of 12 good men. Well its beyond that and your score aint good.
So posting here may do you good, you have free advice and the advice is calm down.
Its now your call, how much money do you want to spend, How high do you want your blood pressure to go. Its your thing, You may die proving you are correct, you may take a vallium, or you may see that life is short, stress like this kills, so why do it.
I am sure you look at the posts here and fume, thats who you are. Well continue doing that and you will kill yourself, Chill out a bit.

[Carry Pine]

I appreciate that most people here think Torb is using this site as a lever against a company but haven't we all been bitten by some company in the past and got really angry about it? I know we can settle it in private but if others can learn from the experience, isn't that a plus? I would suggest that in every area of my life, some person or company has either ripped me off or attempted to (or is trying to as we speak). Most of the time I just wear it, get a refund maybe or on two occasions threaten legal action. I'm thinking of my cars, bikes, the house, the shed I built this year, tools and just about everything.

I identify with this guy after my purchase of a Leigh dovetail jig at the WWW show where i was promised delivery in 3 weeks. 4 months later there were strong rumours that the company was being sold. In that case I'm glad I made noises (even on this Forum) even though the reps of the company were very friendly when i called each week.
I retired this year and my union was charging me by deduction for full union membership and retired membership.

After retiring my health provider staed they would not be receiving any deductions and that from a certain date i wasn't covered. i paid them in advance but the deductions kept coming out of my super fund anyway. They didn't tell me. I told them.
Because I do casual work for the government they make a super contribution. My super company took out 2 life insurance policies on me and told me about it 2 months later. They do not want to refund the contributions already made but i have never asked for the policies.
My phone company charges me each month for WAP sessions. Only between 3-5 dollars and most of the time i get it back but i tell them every time i call that I don't use WAP sessions. My phone is one that sends sms and voice calls only.

The companies that I deal (or have dealt with) are all well-respected companies but i don't think it hurts to put some pressure on them when they are not living up to their promises or are deliberately going out of their way to penny pinch.

Not included in the above companies I have had experiences with e bay and pay pal that were less than satisfactory from my position. Those two you use at your own discretion.

Graham

[TORB]

Ric, You never told us why the item was so urgent in the first place.

Rusty,

Why I needed it is immaterial to the discussion.

The fact is the supplier failed to meet one of their own contractual commitments relating to the terms of sale. A couple of other people have mentioned the Trade Practices Act. For the record, I am very familiar with the TPA (and 2 other acts that were the mainstays governing my business.) My experience of the TPA goes back to 1977 when it was first introduced as it had a critical impact on part of the business I was involved in at the time, and I have maintained an interest in it ever since. I have read those three acts countless times.

Prudent business management means that it is important to have a comprehensive understanding of the main government legalisation that affects ones business.

[woodbe]

I rate you both about even.

Sydney tools should have copped the loss on the freight without a fight. The customer is always right, and in this case the customer clearly was ahead of the game and had the facts and timing of the communication on his side.

The customer on the other hand, has wasted an awful amount of his own time and probably a lot of ST's time extracting what was his right. Presumably, he bought the machine on ebay because it was cheap, and relied on the 'ebay infrastructure' to carry out his urgent wish. Businesses get busy with deadlines at the close of the day, and it takes calibre for them to perform at their best. Even so, mistakes happen and deadlines are missed.

I wonder what would have happened if the customer had got on the phone and spoken to a human in the first place? Might have gotten the machine at ebay price on the freight that day, who knows? I've often rung bricks and mortar traders that have cheapies on the web like these and wotif etc, and gotten the same deal with personal service.

Life's too short.

woodbe.

[old pete]

Hey Guys,

Isn't it time we dropped this one??. This debate is becoming frankly quite boring and is totally unproductive. Just let it go folks is my request and suggestion.

Old Pete