self funded retirees

[nine fingers]

How many woodies in the last week or so have seen their superannuation hit for a six. Since Rudd the duds budget , tax on mining, and other balls up, utter waste of MY money, insulation,stimulus packages ,etc ,what do we do.
I worked bloody hard all my years without any hand outs, didn't even get the the money hand out when Rudd was giving everything away
I'm p----d off with anyone that thinks that Labour can run this country.
While I'm at it brumbles Brumby gets a mention too, Billions of dollars wasted
Since Labour has been in power in Victoria,cost over runs on every thing they touch, fast trains, Myki, roads ,desal water, anything they put their finger on blows out. How much longer do I, or we have to put up with these governments. End of rant nine fingers

[wheelinround]

NF sorry we all pay GST to fund this so we all suffer not just self funded retirees.

NSW is no different trouble is all those projects are private in both states but we are still forking out the $$$ for it. Now figure that one out.

[Ruddy]

And so say all of us!
Spare a thought for your neigbours. We reckon you have it good in Victoria....... In NSW we have a State Government that is the best that money can buy and still we vote them in every four years.
Just when you think they could not get any worse they always find a way.

[artme]

labor!! Hard bloody labor.

See where the incoming British government has no money to run the counrty! That is thanks to labor!

Frankly, I don't care much who is in government. My main concern is that we get GOOD government. It is apparent that we do not seem to be getting that any where in Australia.

Not all the problems stem from government decisions, but I'd reckon that a majority do.

[ian]

NSW is no different trouble is all those projects are private in both states but we are still forking out the $$$ for it. Now figure that one out.

it's quite simple really.
the private sector builds something like a desal plant on a "take or pay" basis -- which essentially means the ultimate customer (with desal water that's you or I) agree to either buy the plant's output or if it rains and the dams are full, pay for water the plant doesn't produce.

The "take or pay" concept is widespread
BHP wont open a new coal mine unless they have a forward contract of some sort for the coal.
Your local shopping centre will have a "use it or pay for it" lease agreement with the so called anchor tenants -- typically Coles, Wollies, David Jones, Myers. For example, in years gone by, it was usual for DJs or Myers to signup for a 40 year lease in a new shopping centre.

[ian]

Frankly, I don't care much who is in government. My main concern is that we get GOOD government. It is apparent that we do not seem to be getting that any where in Australia.

Not all the problems stem from government decisions, but I'd reckon that a majority do.

I think the problem is us.
we keep electing governments on the basis of a 10 second "sound bite" or a "beauty contest" or personal issues like what size tax cut will I get.

Only rarely do we as an electorate engage our pollies in any real discussion about the sort of future we would like to have.

[Frank&Earnest]

I think the problem is us.
we keep electing governments on the basis of a 10 second "sound bite" or a "beauty contest" or personal issues like what size tax cut will I get.

Only rarely do we as an electorate engage our pollies in any real discussion about the sort of future we would like to have.

Quite. But I must have a bad memory, I can't recall any of the rare real discussions you mention happening in the last 30 years. Unless you call the routing caused by Workchoices the result of a "discussion".

But let's go to the basics: the two party system does not allow the minority of thinking people to have a voice. If we are too stupid to change the system we deserve what we got.

[Sebastiaan56]

But let's go to the basics: the two party system does not allow the minority of thinking people to have a voice. If we are too stupid to change the system we deserve what we got.

You're getting as cynical as me Frank.....

A couple of miner points (pun intended). The mining tax is by no means a certainty despite the bleating of the mining industry. Firstly he has to get it through the Senate, Libs wont support it and St Steve Fielding wont because he wont. If Fortesque's project wont get off the ground its because they cant sell what they propose to dig out and therefore no one will finance it. What is not told is the generous exploration concessions and insurance for failed projects that are part of the package.

What is not so widely reported is that ore prices are plumetting, that is why your BHP and Rio shares are getting trashed. Add that to Europe entering a recessionary phase, China's massive ore stockpiles and then you have some real reasons for the falling market. I got really annoyed when Howard and Costello took the credit for a resources boom fuelled economy now Swan is trying the same trick. Both "L"s are the same as far as I can tell and I am yet to be convinced that either one changes our economy when our economy relies on foreign miners digging Aussie minerals to sell overseas to sell back to us as manufactured goods and sending the profits overseas to their parents in London and Capetown. All my great grandchildren will inherit is a bunch of bloody great big holes in the ground.

A pox on their rancid egos......


end of my rave....

[jimbur]

Some years ago Robert E Looney (sic) published a paper on the problems caused by mineral wealth on the development of third world economies.
His argument was that the wealth coming into a country caused a reliance on that wealth to the detriment of industry within the country. He believed imports would prevent any development of home grown industry as it was far easier to spend overseas than invest locally.
His paper was only looking at the third world but some of his conclusions are relevant to Australia today. How many of those enjoying the Australian economic 'miracle' are reliant on jobs in sectors which have an almost total reliance on imports?
Cheers,
Jim

[kiwigeo]

So here we have a tax on "super profits" which for some reason is focused on the mining industry. What about the other industries producing super profits like our banks??? Banks earn their profit with assistance from the govt (guarantee on savings post last market glitch) and take far less risks than do the mining industry.

The mining super tax has been poorly thought out by Rudd and co. One overlooked side effect of this tax is going to be a spate of take overs of many of the small miners who suddenly find themselves unable to go ahead with projects due to lack of capital. No doubt the Chinese will be rubbing their hands with glee...

[Frank&Earnest]

Sebastiaan: I am afraid my cynicism goes back a long time... keep in mind that I am in Australia because I made a decision that this country seemed the best place where to live, after all...

Jimbur: spot on. But why do you separate Australia from the third world?

Kiwigeo: sorry mate, but the comparison does not stack up. Without entering the discussion whether nationalism is good or evil, (and there is no point arguing that banks are prostitutes, that's what they are) the difference is that banks provide a service here with money which can come from everywhere and go ewerywhere, the miners take a bit of the nation's sovereignty away, never to come back. If we had coal for 4 years instead of 400 years, would you want to sell it or keep it? As regards the Chinese buying small miners, they are already doing it, hence the desire to get a better price for what we sell. There are laws for limiting foreign ownership, what you might want to find out is whether they are as strong as you would like them or not.

We are little leprechauns sitting on the pot of gold. Let's just trade it while we can and hope that in 50 years time when finite resources are dwindling the big boys don't just come and kick our children's ass out of it.

[jimbur]

...

Jimbur: spot on. But why do you separate Australia from the third world?

.

That's what the paper was about but, as you imply, even if we have first world incomes the precursors to third world living definitely exist here.
The same problem was seen in the UK and other parts of Europe with North Sea oil.
Cheers,
Jim

[kiwigeo]

How many of those enjoying the Australian economic 'miracle' are reliant on jobs in sectors which have an almost total reliance on imports?
Cheers,
Jim

Im going to turn that question around and ask how many people are in jobs that benefit directly or indirectly from the activities of the mining industry.

Lets look at who benefits each time I go off to work:

1. Taxi from residence to airport.
2. Qantas flight from Adelaide to Perth. Full fare as I often have to make last minute changes to my departure date.
3. Taxi from Perth Airport to a hotel in Perth CBD.
4. Room and meals at Perth Hotel.
5. Another taxi fare from Perth CBD out to the airport.
6. Skywest flight is up to 4 hours late departing 9 time out of 10 so $20 gets spent on meals and coffee at Perth Airport.
7. Skywest flight from Perth to Exmouth. The govt also gets a nice big bonus with the exorbitant landing fee they charge civil aircraft landing at Learmonth RAAF base.
8. Bristows helicopter flight from Exmouth to oil rig. Bristows are a foreign owned company but staff are all either locals or Perth based.

Now compare that with the number of people who directly or indirectly benefit every time a bank employee heads off to work??

[Frank&Earnest]

...Now compare that with the number of people who directly or indirectly benefit every time a bank employee heads off to work??

Easy. All of us. Didn't you see what happens when banks don't do their job properly? I am sure Nine Fingers had a few choice words, as I had, to express on that point when the GFC killed a quarter of our investments. Whatever the stupidity of our politicians, at least they kept enough control on the banks to avoid the excesses that have bankrupted Iceland. Or our bankers were smart enough to avoid these excesses anyway and therefore save the backside of our politicians. Take your pick.

[jimbur]

Im going to turn that question around and ask how many people are in jobs that benefit directly or indirectly from the activities of the mining industry.

Lets look at who benefits each time I go off to work:

1. Taxi from residence to airport.
2. Qantas flight from Adelaide to Perth. Full fare as I often have to make last minute changes to my departure date.
3. Taxi from Perth Airport to a hotel in Perth CBD.
4. Room and meals at Perth Hotel.
5. Another taxi fare from Perth CBD out to the airport.
6. Skywest flight is up to 4 hours late departing 9 time out of 10 so $20 gets spent on meals and coffee at Perth Airport.
7. Skywest flight from Perth to Exmouth. The govt also gets a nice big bonus with the exorbitant landing fee they charge civil aircraft landing at Learmonth RAAF base.
8. Bristows helicopter flight from Exmouth to oil rig. Bristows are a foreign owned company but staff are all either locals or Perth based.

Now compare that with the number of people who directly or indirectly benefit every time a bank employee heads off to work??

You do make an excellent point for me. Most of the benefits are from service industries especially to the airlines which are reliant on foreign built aeroplanes and probably bought with money borrowed overseas.
Cheers,
Jim