Su Fang

[hughie]

Have a look at this for turning the history books up side down



The Asiatic Fathers of America - www.AsiaticFathers.com

[artme]

This is a very interesting topic Hughie, and one I have been interested in for some time but not had the chance to pursue as I would like.

In fact much of the history of the world is not as we have been taught.

The Vikings were in north America long before Columbus and the Chinese long before them. In fact my reading of history is that Columbus never set foot on the north American continent above about the far south of Guatamala.

There was an interesting bit on ACA last night about Cook'ss "discovery" of the east coast of Australia. To label him a crook or a cheat is unfair. as there were no known maps of the are at that time, unless they had been kept secret by the admiralty or some other organ of government.

There has long been suspicion that the Portuguese had know of the are along the east coast. I have read of the remains of a structure down near Eden that are very much like Portuguese fortifications. For years there were reports of the remains of a Portuguese ship somewhere on the west coast of Victoria.

Going further back there are Maps drawn up by Piri Ris (? spelling) from the area of modern Turkey that showed very large parts of the unknown world - at least to Europeans- in remarkable detail and accuracy.

History , it seems, simply boils down to what we know at the time.

[graemet]

There was an interesting bit on ACA last night about Cook's "discovery" of the east coast of Australia. To label him a crook or a cheat is unfair. as there were no known maps of the are at that time, unless they had been kept secret by the admiralty or some other organ of government.

There has long been suspicion that the Portuguese had know of the are along the east coast. I have read of the remains of a structure down near Eden that are very much like Portuguese fortifications. For years there were reports of the remains of a Portuguese ship somewhere on the west coast of Victoria.

Cook himself acknowleged that the east coast of Australia was known to the Portugese prior to his voyage, but its true position and detail was not. He was the first to accurately map the coastal outline, (detail being filled in later by Flinders), and formally claimed the east coast for England on an island in the Torres Strait, Possession Island. He knew that it was the eastern side of New Holland and referred to it as such in his log.
Ray Parkin's book, HM Bark Endeavour, is a great read.

[joe greiner]

This is why we have archaeologists. Columbus deserves credit for his "discovery," simply because after that it stayed discovered. Even now, discoveries are being made in Africa, of ancient thriving metropolises whose inhabitants vanished, along with written records. Of course, the fire at the library in Alexandria Egypt didn't help matters.

In Arizona USA, there are ruins of "Anasazi" settlements. In Navajo, "Anasazi" means "those who went away." (or something like that.)

Cheers,
Joe

[mic-d]

She's just regurgitating her father's book. I read 1421, got sucked in, but now a fair bit has been debunked:
The myth of Menzies' "1421 " exposed
now I'm a bit more cautious about these claims.

Cheers
Michael

[artme]

I agree Mic. There are some claims that should be regarded with suspicion or even as downright fraud.

I have read - and as usual cannot remember where - That artefacts have been found in North America that point to the presence of Chinese. I think there is some evidence that horses? were already in NA before the Europeans and that certainly should not have bee the case if our knowledge of history is correct.


You have a point there Joe, but I often wonder why Columbus didn't venture further north and south. He certainly had the time and opportunity.

Where did Cabral get the idea that South America Existed? He is credited with the European discovery of Brazil and, therefore, South America.

[jimbur]

Never mind nature abhorring a vacuum, cartographers were just the same - stick a few sea serpents in to liven it up or balance the empty bits with terra australis
Cheers,
Jim

[joe greiner]

I often wonder why Columbus didn't venture further north and south. He certainly had the time and opportunity.

I suppose it looks that way with historical perspective. But he probably had some competing objectives, as we do now, as well as commitments to his sponsors. And everything took a lot more time than it does now.

When I was working full time, I barely had time to update my resume. Tooting my horn in professional journals was a lost cause. Woodworking itself was more emergency mode than pleasure. I didn't pursue it in earnest until retirement, and I still feel like a one-armed paperhanger sometimes.

Cheers,
Joe

[jimbur]

Agree with Joe. Competing interests etc. Food getting low, teeth falling out, water barrels leaking perhaps, sailors going on R and R and priests telling him they'd fall off the end of the earth if they didn't turn back.
Cheers,
Jim

[Sebastiaan56]

You have a point there Joe, but I often wonder why Columbus didn't venture further north and south. He certainly had the time and opportunity.

Scope creep, he had to get back and get the returns on his time investment going. It was a commercial venture after all...

[jimbur]

Scope creep, he had to get back and get the returns on his time investment going. It was a commercial venture after all...

Missed out on the tobacco and chewing gum franchise though

[artme]

Not to mention maize, potatoes and cocaine!!!

[jimbur]

Not to mention maize, potatoes and cocaine!!!

now that would be the end of civilisation as we know it - a life without chips

[artme]

now that would be the end of civilisation as we know it - a life without chips

Or burritos and nachos.

[jimbur]

Or burritos and nachos.

and tomatoes - it hardly bears thinking about