Product Liability

[scrapwood]

I am in the process of making a set of table and chairs suitable for toddlers which will be for sale at our local craft shop. I have constructed them following basic methods using dowel joints and 19mm thick radiata pine. Whilst I feel confident the furniture will be suitable for toddlers, I am also sure that non toddlers will also use them and I do not wish to be sued should anything untoward happen.

What would be the best disclaimer that I could attach permanently to avoid any liabilty? Or does anybody have any idea of what the legislation says in this area. I also suspect that legislation may differ from state to state.

[billrule]

AS/NZS 4688.2:2000 Furniture - Fixed height chairs - Determination of strength and durability
These aren't cheap, but the biggest problem is making sure they refer to the info you want in more than just general terms. With these issues, there is NEVER a 100% black & white answer; what you probably need to do is make an effort to get the appropriate info (as on the site above), and use it as a guide. The defence you mount should something go wrong is that you had made reasonable efforts in good faith to determine that appropriate standards. What you MUSTN'T do is attach any reference to the article stating or implying that the article is in any way approved to that standard. Better to intended use (for children) and a maximum recommended mass. As always, stand back and also make sure it passes the common-sense test for strength, stability, and danger under failure, ie. if one bit breaks, will it result in some sharp other bit being driven into the user's body in a predictable fashion. ps if you search the site more thoroughly, you can sometimes get copies of about-to-be-superseded versions provided free as background for commenting on the newer version. Similarly, they often make the draft versions available (or did) for comment before committing to the final form.
Good luck

Bill

"The above is not specific legal advice; and should not be relied upon as such"

[The Bleeder]

Put a weight limit on it.

[scrapwood]

Thanks Bill, you're comments are noteworthy and very helpful, I will be searching the web for ideas on expanding some guidelines for the 'common sense test' and other websites which may discuss Australian Standards. I probably will have to set a weight limit and intended function as the use by non toddlers in an inappropiate manner which will be the cause of any failure.

Norm

[cultana]

Norm:
Try going to either a TAFE college library or even the Uni of Adelaide, Uni SA libraries they should have copies of these standards.
Any TAFE that teaches carpentry/joinery should have copies also.

[toolbagsPLUS]

What would be the best disclaimer that I could attach permanently to avoid any liabilty? Or does anybody have any idea of what the legislation says in this area. I also suspect that legislation may differ from state to state.

Hi Scrapwood,

Years ago I had a factory making furniture and we also went down the road of childhood furniture. Found it was littered with mines and traps so decided to get right out if it. Toy boxes are a prime example if it is to be sold as a toy box, back then (sure it's worse now!) they had to be fitted with a warning label and a pneumatic gas strut so fingers could not be caught. Buuuuuuuut if you sold them as storage boxes no problems.

Other thing see Victorian Woodworkers for Insurance, for under a couple of $100.00 you get great peace of mind.


Cheers


Steve

[HammaHed]

I think the company / organisation has a marketing structure that really sucks - because rather than defining the topic in large blocks, and selling them thus at a fair price, they split the subject into every single fragment that they possibly can and charge as much as they can for each piece.

I have compared the AS marketing practices with several overseas organisations that perform a similar function and the AS marketing practices are just appalling.


ie. This is a pretend example.

"The AS for wooden furniture": No....... they do not sell it - like the DOT or BS or EU or US standards organisations do for say $80 - which contains all of the following:


But the Australian Standard do sell the same "standard" just like this:

AS for wooden chairs (only) $388
AS for gluing of wooden chairs $145
AS for screwing wooden chairs $255
AS for wooden chair weight limits $123
AS for stress testing wooden chairs $255
AS for wooden chair timbers $66
AS for wooden chair labeling $129
AS for wooden chair standards $599
AS for the testing or imported wooden chairs $699
AS for wooden chair seats $210
AS for wooden chair backs $165
AS for wooden chair legs.. $188

add infinitum.

I think the AS institute is good at gouging and leeching and screwing people for everything they can at every step of the way - and I don't like their practices at all.

They smack of monopolistic practices much like Telstra.

[scrapwood]

Thanks Cultana, ToolbagsPLUS, and HammaHed, there is something in your comments I can use. I can see when I do get the chance to visit a library I will have a lot of reading to do, in the meantime I believe I have made and either an entertainment unit stand (ie a table for the electronics and chairlike structure for the speakers) or a quaint indoor pot plant stand.

Thanks The Bleeder, if I could put a weight limit on it, I would but I would need some form of reference/testing to come up with a nominal value and that is where the AS (read Au$tralian $tandard$) come in.

[bobsreturn2003]

i dont see any such labels for foreign made goods , seems most discrimatory . and some of the stuff being sold as solid timber ???? seems to include all sorts of timber by products , with cheap glue . i see the need for standards ,and all goods should comply ,or no one needs too . otherwise its not a fair go??? what do you think?

[cultana]

I think the AS institute is good at gouging and leeching and screwing people for everything they can at every step of the way - and I don't like their practices at all.

They may be running under some unseen AS standard for selling AS standards , so it is all above board...

[brisand]

This reply is late but believe me short of taking out public & products liability which would be too expensive for a part time woodworker, just give them away to friends or family, as a hobby and not being sold your Home and Contents liability insurance would cover you as it is just ahobby, and not a money making venture.

This not professional advice but of a general nature.

[Mr Brush]

:d

[brisand]

You are risking every thing you own if you continue to rely on any sort of disclaimer if you sell any sort of product.