Werd ov warning

[jmk89]

SilentC

I agree entirely with you and would just like to add that one reason in favour of staying close to the accepted or traditional (I don't say 'correct' because they are all just accidents) spellings, grammar and syntax is that it makes it easier for readers to understand what the writer is trying to say. The further a writer strays from those accepted norms, the harder it is to understand what they are saying.

I agree that language develops (indeed my previous sentence shows one relatively recent development - the use of "they" (third person plural) as a non-gendered version of the third person singular instead of saying he/she/it). However, it usually develops by incremental alterations of the existing norms, not by wholesale abandonment of any attempt to know what the norms are or to observe them.

Sebastiaan - I am very sympathetic with your son's plight. His situation actually re-inforces my point - the ability to communicate in a way that the recipient can understand is essential to make use of an individual's intellect. Faraday (the scientist) said that a piece of research is not completed until it has been written up in clear and concise English in such a way that an educated reader could replicate the research form themselves. We all rely on communication, written and oral, to achieve. How is he with reading? If he has advanced verbal skills when communicating orally and his problem does not affect reading, and his problem is writing and adhering to the spelling conventions, why not try dictation software (eg Dragon Naturally Speaking). I use it at work for my own typing instead of the keyboard and it has improved dramatically over the past 5 years. Also learning to correct the output might be a skill that he can learn which could help his own writing.

[Woodwould]

All the bright ideas in the world aren't much use to anyone if you can't communicate them. So I think, whilst it's probably not so important to be able to spell well, or to know the rules of grammar, it is important that people learn to express themselves. It's an area that often could do with some improvement to allow us to understand each other better.

I agree communication is the key.

Of course language evolves, but it is a very gradual process. People who dump streams of incomprehensible gobbledegook in a forum thread are not part of the evolution; they're both ignorant and discourteous, or possess learning difficulties. Anyone would forgive the latter, but the former is inexcusable.

I have an older family member who had a very privileged education and obtained a degree in English, yet they email me appalling nonsense. Everything is typed in lower case, there's little, if any punctuation, words are strung together and spelling and grammar are completely ignored. I'm sad to say that I delete every email they send, unread. If they couldn't be bothered, or have the common decency to write legibly, why should the onus be placed on me to spend my time untangling and deciphering the rubbish? It's akin to people who queue-barge; they believe their time is more precious than those in the queue behind them.

Similarly, there are one or two members here whose posts, threads and PMs I won't read (even if the title interests me) simply because I have neither the time, nor inclination to attempt to make sense of them.

... it isn't the typing or spelling so much but the discrimination shown towards those people for what or how they do its marking them as D-Head's/dumb/stupid/illiterate.

Dumb/stupid/illiterate? No. D---head, lazy, ignorant and disrespectful? Absolutely!


And jmk89, I purposely used the third person plural to disguise the offender's gender.

[silentC]

Sorry SC but here your wrong the laws are for all not just companies, this would mean the laws discriminate themselves.

Well, as I said I'm not an expert. However I'd like to see one case where a private citizen has been found in breech of anti-discrimination laws through being critical of the way another person expresses themselves in writing. Maybe if you wrote an article in which you said such and such was mentally challenged because they can't spell or use grammar correctly - that person might be able to sue you for libel? Not sure...

[wheelinround]

Jeremy I know in your line of work a spelling mistake or grammatical error can and has swayed the outcome allowing a case to be thrown out. Yet for a Judge to accept that foul language is a part of life

As for Dragon Naturally Speaking it has to be the worst program I have seen used, if not set up properly and checked often. I have a close friend gave up on it in the same line of work as yourself. I get a newsletter each quarter that is created with it and its a verbal mess.

[wheelinround]

Well, as I said I'm not an expert. However I'd like to see one case where a private citizen has been found in breech of anti-discrimination laws through being critical of the way another person expresses themselves in writing. Maybe if you wrote an article in which you said such and such was mentally challenged because they can't spell or use grammar correctly - that person might be able to sue you for libel? Not sure...

I could be wrong here but I recall a book written some time ago which used street talk which came under fire and ended up in court regarding it a personal attack on the writer. I don't think Libel would come into it. It was more a case of Discrimination.
A magazine used to be found in Centrelink which was all street talk.

[Waldo]

I don't know what preceded the original post. With the exception of the example that Sebastiaan56 wrote, I agree with the writings of Woodwould and SilentC, that grammar, syntax and spelling are very important.

Don't get me started on the misuse of newsreaders with their use of were and was with total disregard to the use in singular and plural contexts.

We do not understand any underlying issues that a person may have when making a post with regard to their ability to spell, however there is a magic little genie I love, that when I misspell a word that it has a red line under it. When such a case arises and if I cannot spell that word I use the dictionary on my Mac (which is almost always open to refer to).

Maybe my disdain for incorrect syntax is that in my job, if a job goes to press and I have stuffed up and not checked for any grammatical errors or otherwise, then it is a reflection on my professional ability to ensure on my clients behalf that I have fully undertaken my duty as is rightfully expected of me. An example of this is where a contracted consultant to me said it wasn't their job to ensure correct spelling or line breaks etc. even when they were responsible for the input of that copy into a final document, needless to say I wasn't impressed.

But I digress.

Read of my post what you will, but it is not a shot across the bows of those who cannot spell etc.. Maybe I am the last of a generation when the three R's mattered in school curriculum.

[silentC]

I've had a quick scan of the table of contents of the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 and it doesn't seem to cover bullying or harassment by private individuals.

It covers:

Employment
Education
Access to premises
Goods, services and facilities
Accommodation
Land
Clubs and incorporated associations
Sport
Administration of Commonwealth laws and programs

If it's not covered by the act, I guess it's not covered by any law either. The other question is whether or not poor spelling and grammar constitutes a recognised disability - unless the poor spelling is the result of a recognised disability I suppose.

[jmk89]

As for Dragon Naturally Speaking it has to be the worst program I have seen used, if not set up properly and checked often. I have a close friend gave up on it in the same line of work as yourself. I get a newsletter each quarter that is created with it and its a verbal mess.

As I said, the last few years has seen DNS improve dramatically - I get 99+% accuracy. The more you use it and correct it, the better it is. It also helps if you are good at dictation already, since clear enunciation of each word is essential to clear word recognition (actually, check my entries on the Forums - those done during work hours are done with DNS).

As for the newsletter, I suspect a lazy operator who disregards spelling, and common sense just so that they can be seen to have produced something.

[Sebastiaan56]

We have to have some rules though, otherwise flabberty fluggle jib grotweilding spontanickle?

And may all of your telflambozies unticulate your enflabbles!

[wheelinround]

As I said, the last few years has seen DNS improve dramatically - I get 99+% accuracy. The more you use it and correct it, the better it is. It also helps if you are good at dictation already, since clear enunciation of each word is essential to clear word recognition (actually, check my entries on the Forums - those done during work hours are done with DNS).

As for the newsletter, I suspect a lazy operator who disregards spelling, and common sense just so that they can be seen to have produced something.

So you've seen the same newsletter

Here in lies the problem!! You know what it should be and can set it up tweak it etc those who have a problem can't see it even if they say it wordperfect a mistake gets past them/us it is a brain eye hand function when typed or written.

Thanks for your input.

But we do digress, The post is generally about those who can't see that they are personally attacking and therefore discriminating.

Its not about the words and besides who gives a damn this is a forum not a courtroom or class room its where we are meant to share and have fun.

[Honorary Bloke]

Its not about the words and besides who gives a damn this is a forum not a courtroom or class room its where we are meant to share and have fun.

So, are we having fun yet? This thread was certainly not begun in the spirit of sharing and having fun. It was a rant (self-labeled).

[wheelinround]

So, are we having fun yet? This thread was certainly not begun in the spirit of sharing and having fun. It was a rant (self-labeled).

Well are you HB a man of many words.

This true HB I did bring it up as a Rant, no but then again its a shame those word police and those who make personal attacks have to bring it up isn't it which started my rant in the first place.

[ozhunter]

Her in lies the problem!!

[Sebastiaan56]

jmk89, I scanned read my way through this thread and then reread it properly over lunch. I missed your contribution. We will check it out for the lad. Thanks! The sad fact is that its impossible to change the outside world, he needs mechanisms to be able to manage.

FWIW and to segway just a bit there are a number of illuminating websites that deal with the vagaries of automated spelling and grammar correction. Im sure we have all received some beauties in our emails. Here is a page about MS's foibles but Im sure it happens in all automated systems. Dear Sandeep

[wheelinround]

see an oops from me now I have to go find the thing and fix it