if you dont believe in global warming sign this

[Sebastiaan56]

Sorry, ranting again. Just makes me cranky they won't encourage people to both save money and reduce their enviromental footprint, but would rather force new costs onto people via new bureaucracies, taxes and laws.

I'll join in. Its the only real power they have... oh that and send our best and bravest to fight stupid proxy wars in third world countries. What if the military budget was spent on rejigging our infrastructure? It wont happen as every leader dreams of being a Churchill, but still.

[artme]

I
Water is another classic example. Sure they gave us subsidies for a while to put tanks on (tanks were actually banned in brisbane in the 90's thanks Labour Lord Mayor Sooley), but now those rebates have been restricted or withdrawn. The government would much rather build desal plants and recycle industrial waste into our water supply. Moreover people are suspicious that the Qld government will start taxing the water we collect off our roofs. You have to pay water rights for dams in qld, don't know about down south.

The issue of bot h water and electricity saving measures has been a thorn in my side for years.
When the reticulated water supply was put in at home- I was very small but remember the celebrations - you would not be hooked up until you disconnected AND removed your tanks.Dad described this as rank idiocy. How right he was!!!

When I lived in Coffs Harbour the local council forbade me putting in a tank on "Aesthitic grounds". I offered to put in an underground tank and was again forbidden.

I guess they did not want people bypassing their revenue raising.

With electricity, it would be interesting to do a cost analysis to see if subsidizing photo-voltaic arrays and solar systems is cheaper than building dams and power stations.

I Put a solar hot water system In the house I built in Leeton. The local County Council Did not want to grant me off peak rates for the times I might need it. A threat of court action fixed that.

The same thing with energy efficient housing. Wanted to build a pise or a mud brick house. Council would not allow. The Cheif Building Inspector told me this was because they had no specifications or codes to cover them and "they probably aren"t strong enough".

Year slater I realized I could have challenged this in curt but the hassle is too great.

There are many ways to save energy and cut pollution. Trouble is the greedy companies can't make money from them.

[Ashore]

I guess they did not want people bypassing their revenue raising.
.

and if you got the government subsidy to put a tank in you got an incresd on your sewer bill relating to the size of the tank fitted

[Vernonv]

and if you got the government subsidy to put a tank in you got an incresd on your sewer bill relating to the size of the tank fitted

Is that fact or fiction? I've heard it mentioned before, but it was unclear if this was fact or conjecture. We've gotten the tank rebate, but as we don't have a sewerage connection (we have a septic system) there was noting to tack to charge onto.

I'm truly interested.

[Sebastiaan56]

I just got sent this,

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA6FSy6EKrM&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

[Waldo]

And to add. If you didn't watch Lateline Business you missed a very interesting discussion. Lateline Business - 01/12/2009: Industry figures spar on emissions trading

The views expressed by Nathan Fabian, from the Investor Group on Climate Change, especially highlighted who is really going to win from an ETS. and why the big push for it.

[Sebastiaan56]

Listen to last nights Late Night Live as well. Senator Heffernan (spelling?) pointing to the losses in the proposed markets.

[hughie]

Well given the defeat of the bill in the upper house, we can most likely put this thread to bed and close it.

[Sebastiaan56]

Unfortunately it will be a back as a political issue as both "L"'s have it a part of their policy platforms. Play will recommence next year after the positioning over XMAS.

edit: both parties have climate manipulation in their platforms, not necessarily an ets

[diver doug]

The only reason Global Warming has made it so far in the media is probably because somewhere, some person, company or country is making a metric crap-load of money ! I'll sign any petition for this myth...

As a former science teacher, I can say that the Earth goes through natural temperature fluctuations.

my two cents worth anyway...

Diver Doug

[kiwigeo]

T
As a former science teacher, I can say that the Earth goes through natural temperature fluctuations.

my two cents worth anyway...

Diver Doug

As a teacher you should know that Politicians generally know alot less about science than Scientists. Note also the flip flop stand of The Monk over the issue. I've seen quotes from this man supporting global warming and then there are quotes where he takes a completely opposite stand on the issue. These are both good reasons for me not to sign the petition.

[damian]

Darn. We had a whole page where no one was doing this

You gotta admit, with Tony Abbott leader of the opposition it's going to be funny, funnier than it has been in years.

And ain't Rudd happy about it...

Rudd is a nasty nasty man. Doesn't always come off that way in the media, but off camera....

[Waldo]

Rudd is a nasty nasty man. Doesn't always come off that way in the media, but off camera....

I would say it does. Watch in question time how he makes personal attacks when he has got nothing else to say and how he always turns away from the person who asked the question on the other side of the floor and always instead and addresses his own party members.

I would love the day if ever I came face to face with him.

[Big Shed]

Just read this, IMHO rather interesting, article in The Washington Post

washingtonpost.com

I particularly like the first and the last sentence

[Sebastiaan56]

The old personal freedom scare huh..... Sorry I dont see why freedom would be eroded. IMO more freedoms have been lost fighting the threat (not the reality) of terrorism. Please explain how personal freedom would be more eroded.

edit, I'll be a bit more specific, everything agreed to at the conference will be subject to the processes of the sovereign governments. The opposition just proved they can kill whatever Rudd puts up. Rudd will need to change the laws in Aust by the normal means and wont be able to now that the God coalition has the reins of the opposition. This article is from America and was preceded a few weeks ago by a thread with a bloke bemoaning the loss of American freedoms see here https://www.woodworkforums.com/f43/au...-track-107636/ It was dicussed there.

Btw the US still hasnt signed the Convention on the Rights of the Child, no chance they will sign anything at Copenhagen, its all scare mongering.