H&F ST-12D AKA W454 12" Table Saw

[YeahNah]

As seen here https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=W454
I took delivery of this 270kg piece of machinery on Friday. Delivery to my door by a transport company for $88.00 (H&F said it would be $800.00 as they would need a crane truck. Utter nonsense, it was a standard delivery truck and they moved it into my Garage Workshop with an electric pallet jack). It came on a half pallet, stacked on a full pallet with 2 accompanying boxes which housed the rails and the fence. The machine itself was well packaged in a box made from ply. With wrecking bar in hand, it took about 15 minutes to unpack the box. The 2 cast iron wings were in the box, along with the pressed metal dust shroud (blue box in the picture) and various tools including the spanners required to putthe thing together.

I was easily able to get the half pallet off the full pallet by carefully sliding it off, then used the ply sheet and timber frame to make an adhoc ramp. The saw is on wheels, so it rolled effortlessly on to the floor. Total time. 10 minutes (7 minutes of scratching my head (and other parts of my anatomy) 3 minutes of actual work). Once again, done solo. Without the extra bits it would only have been a mere 210kg. Too heavy to lift, quite easy to slide.

Now the tricky bit, putting it together. H&F manual was very handy when we ran out of toilet paper. The Grizzly manual was useful for putting the machine together. Link is here http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g5959_m.pdf (Thanks for the finding it for me Nick )
There are some differences in the USA model and the H&F. Mainly electrical and the H&F model has a riving knife with a hood, not a splitter.

The rails go one without a problem, the fence is placed on top and fits nicely. Very easy stuff.


It all went together quite well, total time to put together 2 hours.

• 15 minutes to unpack
• 30 mintues to put together
• 1 hour adjusting the cast iron wings (ugh)
• 15 minutes miscellaneous scratching

Getting the cast iron wings to sit flush was the biggest drama. Every time I tighten them, they try to sit proud. I have got one right, the other needs more work. Tips and suggestions welcome.


All else went well. The Saw comes with a combo blade of average quality. I will be looking for a rip blade and cross cut blade to replace it. Budget $150-$200 for both. That's another story for another time.

The saw came without a power lead. No problem, easy to wire one in for anyone who can read and follow directions.

I hooked the unit in to my 3hp H&F DC https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=W329
using 4" flexible hose. Now the big test.....switching it on, and will both machines run successfully on the same 20amp circuit?


Success! I push the on button, it hesitates, then off and running. It hums like a quality machine, a welcome change from the scream of my triton 235mm circular saw, sitting in my workcentre.

I have used it on a few bits of mystery wood (hard softwood, or soft hardwood, difficult to tell). It goes like a hot knife through butter (no longer a cliche for me). Accurate, powerful and big. Entirely unlike it's owner (except maybe my nose).

So in the washup, my early impressions of this machine are:


Pros:

• Excellent value for money
• Very powerful
• good build quality
• decent quality fence
• it sits on super handy wheels
• big table size
• low vibration

Cons:

• mitregauge is pretty average. OK in the short term. The cheapest incra would be a massive upgrade
• manual. Better if it were 2 ply with serations, or on roll would be good too.
• My 2 year old has banged his head about 3 times in 2 hours on those massively long rails. The cream beige seems to blend in. It's a pretty big footprint in the workshop too. Not necessarliy the best saw for those who lack space.

All in all, I am very happy with my purchase, and at this stage I recommend this saw. I will update the review when I have given the saw a proper workout. Until the, questions, words of congratulations and other comments welcome.

Pictures will follow in due course. I lost my digital camera after photographing the assembly of the machine. I either put it in a "really good spot", in which case I won't find it for 3-4 days, or my 2 year old found it, in which case it will be a job for the acheologists in around 200 years. I hope it's the former.

[artme]

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw.

I had trouble lining up the wings on my Jet. Solved problem by clamping solid pieces of angle to top of table and then to wing. Two bits of angle and 4 clamps are needed. I used F clamps because they have a longer "reach" from the sides.

Did the DC work well???

[Bismar]

Sounds awesome, looked in the dust collector for the camera? :P

Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, just have to make time to actually go to H&F, which hopefully would be this friday, and i'm hoping they ordered more stock when you ordered yours :P

How was setting up the actual parallelness of the blade to the mitre track? Also what kind of arbour run out are you getting?

Btw for the blades, i myself am thinking of getting them direct from the US, most notably from the maker of the brand Forrest, which seems to have an awesome reputation. Maybe we should organise a small group buy to save on shipping?

[YeahNah]

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw.

I had trouble lining up the wings on my Jet. Solved problem by clamping solid pieces of angle to top of table and then to wing. Two bits of angle and 4 clamps are needed. I used F clamps because they have a longer "reach" from the sides.

Did the DC work well???

Angle iron eh? Clever. I think I will source a couple of pieces and do as you suggest. Thanks for the tip.

The DC-7 has been good so far. I will write a review once I have had a chance to foul up the dust bags to see if the suction remains strong.

[YeahNah]

Sounds awesome, looked in the dust collector for the camera? :P

Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, just have to make time to actually go to H&F, which hopefully would be this friday, and i'm hoping they ordered more stock when you ordered yours :P

How was setting up the actual parallelness of the blade to the mitre track? Also what kind of arbour run out are you getting?

Btw for the blades, i myself am thinking of getting them direct from the US, most notably from the maker of the brand Forrest, which seems to have an awesome reputation. Maybe we should organise a small group buy to save on shipping?

Camera found, now I have to get my teenage daughter to return my USB cable. Stay tuned.

Bismar, I think you will be delighted if/when you get this saw. I had another session with it and it is just a dream compared to the old Triton (which served me well).

The saw has no noticeable arbour run out. The blade was pretty well parallel to the mitre track. I checked it with my micrometer and it was only .05 mm out straight out of the box. I doubt I will try and improve on that. I have done a quick check of fence accuracy too and it was pretty good. Fine tuning will be done on the weekend.

I am not familiar with the Forrest brand, but I like the name. I've been lookin at CMT and Freud, but I am aware there are better blades out there. It's a dollar thing though. I am all out of pocket money. Jointer and thicknesser will have to wait. I think I might buy a ripping blade now and leave the crosscut blade until much later. I tend to used my dropsaw for cross cuts anyway. In the mean time I might google the Forrest blades you mentioned.

Let me know how your shopping trip goes on Friday (or when you get to go). I would be very interested in reading your experiences!

[John Saxton]

YeahNah good review, where was this machine manufactured ?

I was assuming China on your points with regards to the manual.

M/C looks as though it will go the distance and give you many hrs of pleasure W'working.


Cheers

[Bismar]

H&F website says taiwan.

[graemet]

I am not familiar with the Forrest brand, but I like the name. I've been lookin at CMT and Freud, but I am aware there are better blades out there. It's a dollar thing though. I am all out of pocket money. Jointer and thicknesser will have to wait. I think I might buy a ripping blade now and leave the crosscut blade until much later. I tend to used my dropsaw for cross cuts anyway. In the mean time I might google the Forrest blades you mentioned.

I would suggest you look at Henry Brothers own brand blades. I went to have two of my 10" blades sharpened and was very pleasantly surprised at the low cost. So that I could still work while the sharpening was in progress, I thought I would buy a cheapy as a backup. The HB blades are made in Germany and although I have my expensive blades back now and in excellent shape, I'm leaving my new HB (cheap) blade on the saw as it is as good as I've used.
Cheers
Graeme

[graemet]

Sorry, forgot their details. 541 Old Hawkesbury Rd Vineyard NSW 2765 - (02) 9627 5486
No website but a call will get you someone who knows what he's talking about, no receptionist or sales people, just fellows who know saws.
The usual disclaimers, no connection except a satisfied (many times) customer.

Cheers
Graeme

[YeahNah]

YeahNah good review, where was this machine manufactured ?

I was assuming China on your points with regards to the manual.

M/C looks as though it will go the distance and give you many hrs of pleasure W'working.


Cheers

Hi John

Thanks

Bismar is correct, the machine is Taiwanese. The english is not the problem in the manual, it's to brief, and lacks the required detail and formatting to make it useful. It's a shame as the machine is impressing me more with each use.

On the sawblade front, I will haveto google HB blades. I was looking at buying a CMT ripping blade soon and a Flai fine finishing saw as the funds become available. Althoug, I wouldn't mind a Flai Mustang oneday for tidying up recycled timber Promac Tools :: SAW BLADES :: Mustang Multi Material Saw Blades (type MSG)

[Bismar]

When to Hare and Forbes today, their service was pretty good, although i did not ask too many indepth questions about the machines, as i knew what i wanted. For future reference, i believe Craig is the guy who knows the most about the woodworking machinery.

Sadly however, i was only able to walk away with a quote, as ALL the 240v ST-12D in Australia were sold out and shipment won't arrive till the start of feb.

Sigh

Unsure now if i should wait, as it is a very nicely priced machine, or seek alternatives.

An interesting thing is that the best price he could do with a $4000 purchase was only about 5%, compared to other people purchases from say WWWH. Possibly because their prices are much lower already.

[YeahNah]

When to Hare and Forbes today, their service was pretty good, although i did not ask too many indepth questions about the machines, as i knew what i wanted. For future reference, i believe Craig is the guy who knows the most about the woodworking machinery.

Sadly however, i was only able to walk away with a quote, as ALL the 240v ST-12D in Australia were sold out and shipment won't arrive till the start of feb.

Sigh

Unsure now if i should wait, as it is a very nicely priced machine, or seek alternatives.

An interesting thing is that the best price he could do with a $4000 purchase was only about 5%, compared to other people purchases from say WWWH. Possibly because their prices are much lower already.

Oh No! Bummer on the availability.

I went during the sale and they were sellingthem then for $1549, with no further discout available. I reckon that if you twisted their arm, they should be able to do it for that price. The $A is still strong.

You might be able to look around and find a better saw, but I doubt you'll get one for less. Very dissappointing for you. Out of curiosity, what else are you looking to buy?

[Bismar]

I was after a W850 Scheppach planer/ thicknesser as well.

Was that $1549 price you got ex or inc?

As it stands now, i'll probably head down to WWWH and discuss with them, as being a uni student, by the time feb comes around, thats half my holidays gone.

[YeahNah]

Was that $1549 price you got ex or inc?

including GST

[brisbanefitter]

yes the dollar is good but if you wanna wait for stock that hasnt shipped and roll the dice on what you will pay then you might reap the rewards.
the new shipment should be good, prices good and all that if they have paid for them now, if they have not left taiwan then they havent been paid for and are subject to exchange rate.

they are a solid piece of gear, taiwan builds good ####, almost like europe and the state.
oh and the jet stuff that everybody raves about, its chinese, manufacture is chinese, componets and assembly is all chinese. IT ISNT USA ANYMORE.

sorry for the caps but it ##### me when people say jet is USA quality for a China price, its a china price for a reason.

I say call melbourne and ask them to secure you a saw from the next shipment at todays price, if they will promise to honour it you get a machine at relevant exchabge rate anbd stop the gamble on what might be. everybody thinks we are out of the gfc, well i might pe pesimistic but i dont think we are out of it yet and #### could still hit the fan if the us bail out dont work.

a mate told me that of the usa has the flu its an issue, if china sneezes we are all ####ed, and he turned out to be spot in the money.