Computer...upgrade or new ?????

[namtrak]

Dell has an Ad listed in today's Weekend Australian Magazine.

$1000 for 2.8g processor, XP, 256 Ram, 80g hd, DVD burner but no monitor. Also integrated video (refer to previous post)
Extra $250 for 17in flatscreen.

[Bob Willson]

Just to stir the pot a bit,
I think that Dell are really at the bottom of the pile when it comes to value for money. 20 years ago Compaq were the Rolls Royce of computers (along with HP) they are now all built for a LOW price, but offered at the highest price the maket will bear for their names.
As to your "clunkers" when you bought these machine sthey were top of the range. They used to really fly didn't they? The only thing that has really changed is the software that you ar etrying to run on them. Stop upgrading and making Micro$oft even richer. DOS is the the fastest operating system that micro$oft ever wrote.
Unix (or linux) or one of its many incarnations will happily run a graphical operating system on a 486, and if you can give it 64 meg of memory it will be in 7th heaven.
OK so Midge likes his Apple computer. The problem with apples is that they are so expensive and proprietary that only the rich people can afford them. They wear them like a sort of badge of honour . It isn't that they are that much better at everything, thay are just good at graphics. They still fall over regularly.
My first computer was a Sorcerer from Dick Smith for $2000. It had a total of 32K of memory. that thing really flew. It gave output that just as fast or even faster than the computers of today. No Hard drive, no floppy drive and used an operating system called CPM (Computer Program Maintenance). It had a tape drive that took about 3/4 of an hour to load a 32 k program in at about 300 baud. that was the worst thing about it.
I sold that and got an Apple II. At the time IBM hadn't produced a PC so there was no standard for everone to follow. I quite liked the Apple but everything about it was so bloody expensive because Apple wouldn't allow anyone else to make anything for it. So after a year I got rid of that and got my first PC. Haven't looked back since.
Build your own and learn a new skill. Try this link for parts at prices that are close to wholesale (lower in some cases) I am sure that you will have a similar place close to you.

[vsquizz]

I'm with Bob on this one. Get yourself a good motherboard (Like an MSI 865 Neo, some have onboard network card)), Seagate Barracuda Hard Drive (120Gb being the default size these days), some DDR ram and a good quality graphics Card. A P4 processor at 2.6 Ghz is the base model now and hyperthreading is worth it. There is lots of good variable speed ultra quiet power supplies around now which are excellent. It may be possible to use your old case but in any (case ) you can get a cheap one for less than $40.00. Then your in business.

If your not up to it discuss your requirements with a computer shop for which you can get a reference.

I messed around upgrading and in the end it was wasted money. I have a mate who runs a computer shop and he build better systems then the Dell for about 1/3 less $$$ and still makes a good profit. What does that tell you.

Cheers

[bitingmidge]

OK so Midge likes his Apple computer. The problem with apples is that they are so expensive and proprietary that only the rich people can afford them. They wear them like a sort of badge of honour . It isn't that they are that much better at everything, thay are just good at graphics. They still fall over regularly.

OUCH!!! :eek: It's been a while since you've actually seen an Apple machine hasn't it Bob?

Being as filthy rich as I am, I have to confess to lashing out a little under $1,500 on my eMac configured oh-so similarly to the Dell "bargain" above, but mine came with a 17" flat screen. (How do you operate without a screen Dell people??) Of course had I been as poor as the rest of you , being a fanatic I probably would have spent $1,295 and settled for the CD burner version.

Oh! Did I tell you that that price includes every bit of software you can possibly imagine one might ever need in a home environment??

As for them "falling over" ... well a few years ago, incredible as this may seem, Apple invented a series of little things that stick out from below the computer to steady them.

Seriously the current (last couple of years) version of the Operating System ensures that if one particular application hangs (and ironically I have only ever had this happen with expensive MS products!!), it is a simple matter to kill only that application, nothing else is interrupted.

I am not sure where you get your info Bob, but I am a pretty heavy user of a wide range of software products, and can't remember the last time anything "fell over"...

As for what does what better??? Forget it...graphics vs other stuff is just another furphy....they all do the same or near enough these days, only one bit of hardware comes configured in its basic form with all you need to do it though!

Some days I just wonder why I don't keep my little secret to myself!

P (Who feels a little better now)

[bitingmidge]

Another note for those that can afford Apples!

The first series (up to five year old) iMac DVD versions can be bought for a few hundred dollars, with a lot of ram added (min 512k) even the older 400mb machines work quite well for most things under the current operating system. $300 should be enough to get a perfectly servicable machine if you are not into heavy gaming.

You'll have to lash out on a DVD burner though.

One of my kids is a photographer and and while the (600) machine (equvalent to about 1gig in the PC world) is a bit slow by modern standards for heavy graphic processing it still serves her well, and worth every cent of the $250 it cost including burner and scanner, built in ethernet , modem, wireless networking etc etc.

Pity professional software doesn't come as cheap!

P

[vsquizz]

I would be nice to have a thread about computers not degrade into a Apple vs PC debate , just for a change I mean its only a box of numbers and mice in little wheels an stuff...and everbody knows Mac's are second rate rubbish


Cheers in faceas agitation

[Bob Willson]

Hold on folks, i think I've hooked into a biggy here.

[echnidna]

I would be nice to have a thread about computers not degrade into a Apple vs PC debate , just for a change I mean its only a box of numbers and mice in little wheels an stuff...and everbody knows Mac's are second rate rubbish
Cheers in faceas agitation

Well if you just replace the mice with hamsters and give the hamsters a good feed of baked beans you will end up with a turbo charged Mac!

[namtrak]

I have a mate who runs a computer shop and he build better systems then the Dell for about 1/3 less $$$ and still makes a good profit. What does that tell you.

Cheers

$1000 for 2.8g processor, XP, 256 Ram, 80g hd, DVD burner but no monitor. Also integrated video (refer to previous post)

Vsquizz, I reckon I can call your bluff. Design me a better PC (box only) for $667. My definition of a better PC would be to have maybe 512Ram and a decent video card. And then show me the profit. And Im interested in the warranty your offering on each component?

[Bob Willson]

And Im interested in the warranty your offering on each component?

All new components would have the manufacturers warrantywhich is usually at least 1 year

[Bob Willson]

MODEL NAME TRIGEN - INTEL SPECIAL

PROCESSOR INTEL CELERON 2.6G PROCESSOR

MOTHERBOARD INTEL MOTHERBOARD

RAM 256MB DDR RAM

HARD DISK 40GB 7200 EIDE HARD DRIVE

FLOPPY DRIVE 1.44 FLOPPY DRIVE

VIDEO CARD INTEGRATED VIDEO

CASE ATX MIDI CASE WITH PSU

OPTICAL DRIVE 52X 32X 52X CDWRITER

INTERNAL MODEM INTERNAL 56.6K MODEM

NETWORK CARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD

ANTI VIRUS NORTON ANTI VIRUS

SOFTWARE SUPER 10 PACK

KEYBOARD DELUXE KEYBOARD

MOUSE PS/2 MOUSE

SPEAKERS AMPLIFIED SPEAKERS



Includes – Norton Anti Virus, Nero Burn CD, OpenOffice.org, Print Shop 20, Spam Catcher , After Dark Games, Atari 80 Classic Games, Diskeeper lite, Easy Fax, Eudora Pro Email 6, Globe Productive, iClean, Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing Version 16, Music Match 8.2, , Stuff It Standard 8.0, World Book 2005, World Tours Golf



PRICE $530

extra RAM +$50
Reasonable video card $50
Profit about $60
This of course is by taking Visquizz's off hand price at face value. I would normally charge a bit more than that and make the profit about $150

[namtrak]

Nice try but....

That's not a better computer - 2.6 CPU is smaller, same RAM 256, 40 gb hard drive (half the size of the Dell), still an integrated video card and no DVD burner. And when something goes kaput, do I have to identify the component - then pull the component out and wait until it is returned to have my warranty fulfilled? And as for the Decent Video card (128mb) at $50? I think your really looking at around $200 (I'll give you $90 at the lower end)

Next.....

[vsquizz]

Bob your having a productive day.

Namtrak, warranty is a good point. I have no problems with my shop, they warrant the item even if the distributor, importer or manufacturer don't but thats rare.

Its hard to fathom value in all the advertised garb because its designed to appear good. Sometimes the specials are a great buy. Sometimes its just old stock. Computer hardware costs vary dramatically on the dollar.

I know my mate doesn't panic about things like Hardly normal, Dell etc, he just loves it when somebody brings one of those ads into the shop.

FYI I have the 2.8 H/T, 4 dimm MB with onboard ethernet, 1Gb DDR, and 2 x SATA 80Gb HD, DVD Read CD Burn and GeForce FX 5700 with 256 Ram all for $1400.00. Not bad on old prices that Dell wanted well over 2 grand for at the time. Oh there was a Sound Blaster Live thrown in for stamps. The Philips DVD player is now about half the price I paid..Oh and a GeForce FX 5200 with 128 of Ram is currently $59.00

You just got to keep an eye on prices and know what quality you are getting. I didn't say the Dell was on the nose but you can build a better machine for less if you know what you are doing.

Great Deals do appear.

Cheers

[Bob Willson]

You didn't read it properly namtrak
I put at the bottom of the quote that an upgrade to 512 meg would cost another $50 and that the card would cost another $50. Just checked the prices and the video card is 128meg / GEFORCE4 MX4000 but it does cost $77
and for the 80 gig HDD plus about $15

I think that you will find that the Dell has onboard graphics, so any card is going to be better than that.
You are being a bit unreasonable in your demands. The 2.6 gig and the 2.8 are so close it really doesn't matter much.
PS Dell will also charge you $100 to deliver the computer. NO EXCEPTIONS

[vsquizz]

Well this better than Mac vs PC anyway ..now what was the original question??? Oh yes, computers are consumables..2 to 4 year lifespan, hardly worth upgrading these days but I'll go against the trend and hang on until its unbearable . Money can be better spent on working out how to steal Woodborer's LN's

Cheers