old 1930's floor dressing what is it ?

[sandant]

Hi
i am currently sanding an old floor in a 1930's queenslander, it has around the outside of the floor arounf the walls a black polish type subsatance. the best way i can describe it is boot polish.
It has been put right around the loungeroom floor starting at the walls and goes inwards about 500-1000 mm leaving the centre untouched.

It looks like it was used as protection around the outside of the loungeroom floor and a large mat placed in the centre of the floor.

as mentioned i am trying to sand this floor (was going to use a belt sander due to a little bora in the wood however it will take me a week to do at the rate it comes off using 40grit)

my main question is what is it ? when i sand it using a respriator as protection, the fumes get through and after 5-10 mins i get a rotten headache i mean a really bad one.

my wife is currently pregnate and i have sent her to her sisters for the weekend as i dont think she should be exposed to this. or me for that matter.

fire away ive had this question in the back of my mind for yonks!

[blt]

Hmm... it could be creosote or coal-tar creosote which was commonly used for preserving timber & repelling insects. Is it sticky, or is it a flat coating?

Here's some health info regarding creosote: http://www.nohsc.gov.au/OHSInformati...4/01997cre.htm

edit: Creosote has a very distinctive smell... does the floor smell of anything?

[sandant]

its a flat black i would not say sticky at all imagine if you rubbed boot polish into wood and let it sit for 80 years in an interior environment.

[craigb]

I'd say that it would be Black Japan.

This was the traditional way of treating timber floors in that age house.

You are correct, it was intended as a border around a rug ,that's why they didn't bother doing the whole floor.

When we bought our current place, the previous ownwers had painted decking paint over the black japan (and the entire floor) . :eek:

You should have heard the bitching from the floor sander (not me btw).

[sandant]

just read that page that was linked and thats exatcly the symtoms im feel ing right now the buning of the eyes vertigo and a headache, this stuff really stinks too,
if thats what your floor sander encountered then i wouldnt blame his bitchin i better go clean this stuff up and wash it offa me before it gets to bad, keen to read up more about this stuff must be pretty bad gear fot the recomendations on the webpage you posted.

[bitingmidge]

Yep, it's Black Japan without a shadow of a doubt.

Floor sanders really love it! Hire a floor sander (the edger type - whatever they are called) and use lots of fresh paper.

Sorry.

P

[craigb]

just read that page that was linked and thats exatcly the symtoms im feel ing right now the buning of the eyes vertigo and a headache, this stuff really stinks too,
if thats what your floor sander encountered then i wouldnt blame his bitchin i better go clean this stuff up and wash it offa me before it gets to bad, keen to read up more about this stuff must be pretty bad gear fot the recomendations on the webpage you posted.

That wasn't me it was blt's link.

I still think it's more likely to be black japan than creosote though.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to live in a room that had fresh creosote in it and I suspect neither would the original owners.

[ozwinner]

Yep, it's Black Japan without a shadow of a doubt.

That would be A'hso honkey, wouldnt it.

Al

[sandant]

That wasn't me it was blt's link.

I still think it's more likely to be black japan than creosote though.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to live in a room that had fresh creosote in it and I suspect neither would the original owners.

yeah sorry i did know that. my bad written comunication skillz@

Is it possible that these two things b/japan and ceraatote can be the same things ?

reading about ceratote they say
pasted from webpage

In Australia, creosote is produced by distilling coal tar derived as a by-product of metallurgical coke ovens. Technically, creosote is a low-boiling distillate of coal tar. The chemical constituents of creosote are numerous. It is estimated that a complex mixture of 1,000 compounds may be present, mostly in trace amounts, many being of the aromatic series.

The major use of creosote is as a timber preservative against fungi, termites and marine borers. Timber preservation is an example of a work activity which requires special attention when assessing exposure.

[outback]

I'm with Craig, whilst a popular preservative for timber,I'd doubt very much anyone would use creosote indoors. The original part of my house had, what i assume is black japan, in three rooms, when it was renovated the first time, the rug was a tad different size, so decking paint was added. When I renovated I thanked them all for their diligent work in making my life a little more hellish.

[sandant]

mm ive done quiet a substantial search on google for this stuff but nothing of a mention other than a bird avery company advertising black japan coated hinges?
can anyone tell me a little about it and what health risks my family may be exopsed to. ATM im playing it real safe as said , just the smell of this stuff i think if enouth warning that its not good for you.

also anyone better suggestions to removing it, my plan for now is to hire a floor sander tomorrow and hit it, im still a little worried about opening up a maze of bora tracks though, but its maybe an option to use the belt in the centre and lay the floor sander up over that patch concerns for that thouhg you get dig marks where you return the sander to the floor.

any floor sanding tips would help i have done a small floor out the back in an old deck with much different timber though it turned out good considering the condition of the timber but i still ended up with some dig marks aroung the edges,

a few questions

do you guys think the edge sanders could do the whole floor or strictly keep edge sander to the edge ? ( i can use the belt sander for the edge if thats the case)

i have a kitchen floor to do to but the belt sander is doing fine where there is no black japan

a penny for your thoughts !

[craigb]

No. Black Japan and creosote are two entirely different animals.

Before treated pine, all power poles used to have their bases painted with creosote because it is so good a detering termites.

Of course, like most things, it doesn't last forever so would have to be re-applied fro time to time.

If you do a search on this board for Black Japan, you will find a recipe for how to make it.

It's been around for centuries and originated in Japan, hence the name.

[craigb]

mm ive done quiet a substantial search on google for this stuff but nothing of a mention other than a bird avery company advertising black japan coated hinges?
can anyone tell me a little about it and what health risks my family may be exopsed to. ATM im playing it real safe as said , just the smell of this stuff i think if enouth warning that its not good for you.

also anyone better suggestions to removing it, my plan for now is to hire a floor sander tomorrow and hit it, im still a little worried about opening up a maze of bora tracks though, but its maybe an option to use the belt in the centre and lay the floor sander up over that patch concerns for that thouhg you get dig marks where you return the sander to the floor.

any floor sanding tips would help i have done a small floor out the back in an old deck with much different timber though it turned out good considering the condition of the timber but i still ended up with some dig marks aroung the edges,

a few questions

do you guys think the edge sanders could do the whole floor or strictly keep edge sander to the edge ? ( i can use the belt sander for the edge if thats the case)

i have a kitchen floor to do to but the belt sander is doing fine where there is no black japan

a penny for your thoughts !

My one tip would be to pay a pro to do it for you.

Unless you are a masochist, don't try and do a floor with a belt sander.

If you are determined to diy, then hire a proper floor sanding machine.

And an edger.

[sandant]

its more a question of paying a pro to do it and also their avalability
i have been off work renovationg for the past 4 months a real lerning curve for a financial consultant let me tell you !

anyway i am running out of cash and have to get my butt down to nowra to start work again in the fresh produce industry
a pro would cost me i guess about 1000$ plus and from recent exp be booked out untill around feb i cant even get an eleci round to move my power box to put a deck on untill feb there is a slight chance he will get round ealier but im not counting onit.

oh heres some pics of my work so far. im quiet proud of it considering a have done it all without an ounce of help and the only power tool i owned untill 4 moths ago was a ryobi cordless drill that cost about 30 bucks 8 years ago.
you guys have helped a with advice and info from the site though maybe not as far as posted questions go but he information archived here is brilliant oh and a mate helped me get the lean out of the carport.

[craigb]

Well you have been a busy bee haven't you?

It's looking good.

It's a long way between Toowoomba and Nowra though :confused: