New house wiring

[Dan_574]

Hi all, Im really annoyed at the moment I dont know with who myself or the elctrician I got to do my new house. Im an owner builder who started in Feb and we moved in in July. I got an electrician to do the house, all passed all legal. I got an air con put in today 2.5hp split system. The sparkie who put it in said we are right on the limit of amps available for the size of the mains(16mm), I think we have about 3amps left. He said that he advises people in my area(semi rural) who are on an acre or more with a fair sized house and no natural gas to run two 16mm mains so they can add things later on. Now that we are at our limit any future electrical items that we want to add we will have to fork out $1200+ to add new mains. This really annoys me. Like I said I don't know if I'm more annoyed at myself for not researching better or the original sparky. Can anyone tell me how I calculate the total amps on the house.

[glock40sw]

G'day.
We built our place about 4 years ago.

At the time I decided that I wanted 3 phase power for the shed when it got built.
We had a 3 phase ducted Air-con installed.
Now the house has the lights running on 1 phase.
Half the power points running on the 2nd phase and the other 1/2 running on the 3rd phase.
Future expansion has power to burn.

Our neighbour who built at the same time, installed a 1 phase ducted air-con. He doesn't have enough spare power to even run a beer fridge.

A little homework goes a long way.
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

[journeyman Mick]

Dan,
Amps x Volts = Watts, or
Watts/Volts = Amps

It's simple enough to add up the wattage of lights and most appliances should have their ratings somewhere on an ID sticker or plate. Of course, not all appliances or lights will be on at once, but then again motors and compressors have an initial high starting current. Someone here can probably tell you what sort of extra allowance needs to be made for this, otherwise the sparky you use should be able to tell you.

Mick

[ozwinner]

Maybe your sparkie was trying to keep costs down.

I did a job years ago for a woman, and she kept telling me every day I was there ( I was there for 2 weeks ) " keep the costs down" etc.

Come the end of the job she refused to pay me half of the money, which was the total of all the materials used BTW.
When I asked why. she said wanted the job doing cheaply, rather than a cheap job. :confused:
Im still confused, and that is about 20 years after I done the job.

I didnt get paid, but I harased here through solicitors, and dept collecters for years.

Al

[jackiew]

I think my sledgehammer would have had an outing - she could have her materials ( in pieces) but not the fruits of the labour ....

is there a symbol that tradesmen put outside houses warning of bad customers the same way that tramps used put symbols outside places that were good for a meal.

[Sturdee]

Jackiew,

Giving your sledgehammer an outing might work in the good old U.K. :eek: but here that would be criminal damage. Not highly recommended as the authorities here really frown on that kind of behaviour.

Anything built on the land becomes part thereof. For instance if a builder builts a home on the wrong land that is bad luck for the builder and good luck for the owner, who does not have to compensate the builder or allow him to remove it.

Thus harassing her through solicitors, and dept collecters for years is the only way to get your money.


Peter.

[Rookie]

Dan, a sparkie can loop test the mains, on each phase if there's more than one. They just have a meter that surrounds the main wire coming in, or each phase if there's more than one, and provides a reading. As Journeyman Mick said though, you won't have all switches on at once, but if you can have "typical" number of lights on, and then get a reading each time you turn on big ticket items (air con, kettles, toasters, power tools etc) then you should see on the meter what they contribute as they go on and off and get an idea where you are in relation to the maximum. Don't forget to wait for the draw you can't control to come on as well like fridges and electric hot water systems. They draw significant amounts for short periods of time.

Have a look at the tags on appliances to see what draw they quote.Large home entertainment systems draw a lot, but a smaller stereo might not draw much at all. Toasters and kettles can draw round 2000 - 2400 watts each which is pushing 10 amps so use Micks formula's to get an idea. The quoted draw on an appliance will be the maximum it will draw though, and they will often draw less. We often use a toaster and a kettle for instance on the same powere point and they would blow a breaker if they both drew 10 amps, so I'm sure they don't typically.

[jackiew]

Jackiew,

Thus harassing her through solicitors, and dept collecters for years is the only way to get your money.

Peter.

what would the law say if I leafleted all the local tradesmen advising that I am in dispute with Ms X about non payment of a bill and asking anyone else who is having similar problems to contact my solicitors with a view to joint action. She wouldn't get anyone else working for her for a LONG time.

[echnidna]

Verrry smart Jackiew.

[echnidna]

Another way is to start bankruptcy proceedings agin her

[Dan_574]

I dont know exactly what jackiew is trying to say.

[Sturdee]

Jackiew,

You have raised my pet hate being our legal system. This legal system which we inherited from England and allegedly improved by our homegrown pollies, mainly as a result of vested interests or noisy minorities, has nothing to do with justice.

Thus our legal system is only concerned with legalities not what is right and proper only with the law as enacted. Let me give some examples.

So a criminal will go free if he can prove that some junior police officer made a technical mistake. A thief robbing a purse from an old lady might be convicted and sent to jail but the corporate criminals that steal the life savings of thousands of old ladies will walk free because juries can’t understand the complexities of the case. A jury can’t be told that a criminal has prior convictions as this may influence their decision.

A person can incorporate himself into a company, being the only shareholder and director, and then through the company fleece people of their money and then have the company placed in liquidation and walk away free with his own assets intact. If he then interposes some trusts and other companies then he is really laughing and our legal system helps him to do it.

And then when a robber, whilst stealing from you, breaks a leg on your premises he can sue you. And what about the criminal taxpayer who got a tax deduction for the loss of previous stolen money. And Derryn Hinch, a Melbourne radio commentator was sentenced to nine month jail for having publicly named and identified a Priest who was a pedophile.

Tonight we heard that a criminal, who had escaped from jail a number of years ago, will be let free because the prison he escaped from had never been legally gazetted as such. These are some of the things why we have a legal system and not a justice system.

Given the above the idea of letterboxing other local tradesmen advising that you are in dispute with Ms X about non payment of a bill and asking anyone else who is having similar problems to contact your solicitors with a view to joint action would be tempting but very ill-advised. I wish we could do it and it would feel good but you could well be facing a libel action over your claim of non-payment.

Ms X, on advice of her solicitors, would have what we would call a spurious defense or reason for non-payment. Until such time as this has been determined by a court in your favour, and the time for appeal has expired, you could be counter sued for libel and remember truth is not a defence in libel.

Bankruptcy is also not an option as an act of bankruptcy is not committed until a court judgement is not paid. The debt has to be above a certain amount. If this applies another set of legalese takes effect. Some assets are untouchable, eg, tools of trade, personal clothing, reasonable furniture, reasonable valued car and any property jointly owned. And until there are assets to pay for the cost of administering the bankruptcy the petitioning creditor has tom underwrite and guarantee the costs.

Sorry for the highjack and such long reply but this is my pet hate, and next week I am summonsed for jury service. Pity the criminal if I am empanelled.


Peter.

[echnidna]

Jackiew was saying that its possible to be truthful about that customer without exposing yourself to defamation actions.

[Sturdee]

Bob,

In my previous life I have been involved with sueing a couple of people for libel. From the advise then received I feel certain that advising unrelated people by LETTERBOXING about non payment of a bill will be taken by the court as publishing libel as long as the other party claims that the dispute is not about money but say quality of work.

You could call other people but putting it in writing and letterboxing is a no no.

Peter.

[echnidna]

Point Taken Sturdee,
Well just start bankruptcy proceedings, unorthodox but legitimate and very effective. And if they have stung someone else their world could fall down around their ears.