Senseless and Stupid

[Ben from Vic.]

But again, society has allowed crims of all sorts to blame someone else, it is a greatly used defence in the courts, is it not?

Peter, it's not really society that has allowed criminals to get away with what they do, but the judges, lawyers and system.

Hence we call it a "legal system" not a "justice system".


Steve Phillips.

Truly touching story. Very sad for a father to loose two sons in one go.

As a side note, I read today that it's generaly accepted that accidents above 80kph will often be fatal. The (better engineered) cars can take more, we can't. The forces acting on the body increase exponetialy (sp?) with speed (sort of like the db rating, and vehicle braking distances).

Vehicles are crash tested at 65kph, and this is an offset frontal impact, into a (slightly) absorbent structure. Alowing the front of the car to take the impact.

Side impact offers only minimal protection.

Aparently if they have an accident on the Autobahn they don't usually need an ambulance.

[adrian]

I'm afraid there is nothing you can do to stop it. The young are risk takers. That's why the Quit campaign will never stop young people from taking up smoking. If you tell a young person that they will get sick or die if they do something they will just give you the standard answer, "well at least I'll be a young, good looking corpse." It's what I said as a boy and what my father and grandfather would have said. The young are immortal.
The only thing that can be done is to make it harder for them to kill themselves. One of the ways would be to stop kids modifying cars. They think that because they modify their cars so that they resemble race cars they will handle better and hold the road better but the opposite is true. If you stiffen the springs and lower the car it will only be stable on the flat surface of a racetrack.
Ask any race driver what's the worst thing you can come across when entering a corner or the braking zone before a corner and they will say "bumps" and our roads are full of them. Bottom out going into a corner and the steering goes light and you understeer of the side of the road. Hit a bump with stiff springs while braking and the brakes lock and the car again understeers of the road.
Why the state government allows all these after market modifications is beyond me.

[Peter R]

Peter, it's not really society that has allowed criminals to get away with what they do, but the judges, lawyers and system.

Hence we call it a "legal system" not a "justice system".


Steve Phillips.

.

I don't want to get into another argument, but what are we denying here? Is it because we are all a part of the Australian society that we want to blame someone else for whatever?
The function of the law, not the law system, is changed on a regular basis, by whom? By society. This is why we have the wrist slap penalties.
We know that if you go to court that you will not get justice you will get the law, and he who pays gets better law.
One part of society, because of its lethargic attitudes, allows others in society to dictate the terms that society abides by.
As the pressure groups in society push the vote button of the politicians changes occur, and in the main society is degrading, so to is all moral ethic, all law enforcement, all family values; all heading in a downward spiral unless society kicks itself in the butt and changes its own ethics to one of survival rather than one of self destruction.
Society is to blame for the ills of the country - full stop.
Peter R.

[DanP]

Is it because we are all a part of the Australian society that we want to blame someone else for whatever?

Your whole argument lays blame with someone other than the only person at fault here, the driver.

On Friday, a young 17 year old girl, held a licence for four weeks, drove out in front of a B double, killing her rear seat passenger. She failed to give way to the truck, and we believe, was trying to beat the truck out of the intersection. She was hit at about 90 kph. The intersection in question has suffered several fatal and near fatal accidents in the last two years (Three dead in the last 14 months). The intersection itself has been reworked several times in an effort to stop these accidents and is as safe as it can be. There is no reason for these accidents to occur. I suppose society is to blame for these incidents as well.

You can legislate minimum penalties, hand out rediculously harsh penalties and do all sorts of things to try to stop these incidents. One fact remains. There will always be d1ckhe@ds in the world who will do something stupid and kill someone. This will never stop. You can lock up someone speeding for ten years and the next day you will have someone else doing the same or worse.

Dan

[Grunt]

Society is to blame for the ills of the country - full stop.

Hogwash. If you don't like the way Australia deals with an issue, change it. There are plenty of individuals who have gotten off their fat arses and made a positive change to Australia. It seems that you need someone to blame.

[Peter R]

Hogwash. If you don't like the way Australia deals with an issue, change it. There are plenty of individuals who have gotten off their fat arses and made a positive change to Australia. It seems that you need someone to blame.

Who and why, and who benifits from these changes that you talk about. Don't make spacious comments without backing them up. What individula made changes and what where they.
But, please grunt,don't do a my opinion is better than your opinon bit.
Do you think that any changes are needed in our present society? or Do you think that we live in a perfect world that needs no changes?

I might add that I do not need anyone to blame, I am perfect.

Peter R.

[bitingmidge]

Pardon moi, but isn't this whole thread going the way of it's title???


P

[Sturdee]

Pardon moi, but isn't this whole thread going the way of it's title???


P

Yes. ........... It is time to let it be................ R.I.P.


Peter.

[craigb]

Yes. ........... It is time to let it be................ R.I.P.


Peter.

I'll second that Peter.

?

[DanP]

Craig and Peter, self appointed thread nazis.

[craigb]

Craig and Peter, self appointed thread nazis.

Not at all Dan. (actually it mas Midge who implied that it was becoming "senseless and stupid" )

But after seven pages the arguements do appear to becoming somewhat circular.

Pesrsonally, I agree with the thrust of your arguement.

[DaveInOz]

For the definitive answer to all the questions raised by this thread go here

[DanP]

Craig, that should have had a on the end.

[ozwinner]

[/b]


I might add that I do not need anyone to blame, I am perfect.

Peter R.

Funny f()cker.

Al

PS. sorry

[journeyman Mick]

[/b].......Who and why, and who benifits from these changes that you talk about. Don't make spacious comments without backing them up. What individula made changes and what where they......

Peter,
it is possible for individuals to make a difference/make changes. It's bloody hard work, but it can be done. I'm in the process of campaigning to have Ergon (or local electricity distributor) pay a rural fire levy. Currently in Queensland rural areas (93% of the state) voluntary brigades, operating on shoestring budgets that the local community raises, fight fires and carry out hazard reduction measures. Ergon benefits from this as we protect their infrastructure but they do not pay one cent towards our operating costs. It will probably take a few years, quite a few dollars in phone calls, postage and stationery but they've annoyed me and I don't give up easily. I won't personally gain anything from the exercise but rural communities will hopefully have a bit more in their coffers for fire safety.

Your arguement seems to be that society is to blame for most of the ills that beset it, including people having car accidents. You are a member of this society and by your arguement you are 1/20,000,000th to blame for those three deaths - so what are you doing about it? If you feel so strongly about your gizmo to stop people speeding or black box to record infringements then why don't you campaign to have it introduced, put your money where your mouth is!

We are all but individuals, but sitting back and saying "I'm just one person, what can I do?" is just a cop out.

If there's one major flaw in our society (and there's plenty, sure) it's that people are not being taught that they are responsible for their own actions and lives.
"I had a bad childhood, which forced me into taking drugs and stealing to support my habit and I didn't mean to kill that old pensioner when I knocked her down to take her handbag"
What a load of cr@p! Sure some people have a harder start than others, but we live in a wonderful country with a great welfare system and it is possible for someone to come from behind and make good, it just takes guts and determination.

End of rant

Mick