Five Bar Gates

[JulietDelta]

Hi All,

I'm doing up a rural place and want to make a pair of gates for the drive each about 1.5m wide in the style of the English "five bar gate" - see picture attached.

I'm going to make them out of 70 x35 treated pine for lightness.

The traditional way of making them uses mortiss & tenon joints but I do not have the time or inclination to do it that way and was thinking of using butt joints with nail plates on both sides of each joint with the bracing attached to one side screwed to the frame using gal T/P screws. It would look a bit like a manufactured roof truss but should not look too bad with a coat of paint.

Has anyone had any experience/comments in this sort of construction - would this sort of construction sag for instance.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

[seriph1]

hi John

no offence, but I would advise "do it right or do another type of gate" I feel the4 reason those gates look so good is because of their construction - don't get me wrong - I am no purist....but some things cannot be reduced in design coeffieicnt successfully and I feel those stunning gates are a prime example. I believe you are spot on saying they will look like trusses, because that is what they will be.

Given that morticing and tenoning is a path neither of us wish to go down, perhaps there are other methods for joining the elements. For exapmle you might make the elements from three pieces of timber instead of one, glueing with polyeurethane glue for strength. You still get the mortices and tenons, they just arent made by trenching one piece of material.

thinking about it, I reckon morticing will be easier

FInally, a wheel on the bottom will help with sagging it doesnt need flat ground - just support when it is closed and fully open.

[journeyman Mick]

John,
if you look closely at the photo you'll see that they aren't M&T'ed together. The rails sit between doubled up stiles and there's a single diagonal brace on the same plane as the forward most stile. I've made gates in a similar fashion out of 100 x 25 rough sawn hardwood, just stitched together with roofing screws (14 gauge hex head screws). The property owner was very happy and they're still looking pretty much the same six years down the track.

Mick

[Ben from Vic.]

I suspect that treated pine will quickly bruise, sag and fall apart if used on those gates.

Hardwood would definatly be the go.

[outback]

We used to make a heap of these gates. What Mick says is perzacterly right. The only difference is we used to bolt them.

FWIW I reckon Ben is right also, hardwood is much gooder for this type of construction.

[journeyman Mick]

We used to make a heap of these gates. What Mick says is perzacterly right. The only difference is we used to bolt them.

FWIW I reckon Ben is right also, hardwood is much gooder for this type of construction.

Yeah, I would've preferred bolts too, but the budget didn't allow for it, it's a lot of bolts (about 60 - 80 from memory) and a bit of labour to drill all those holes, push bolts through, thread washers and nuts on etc etc.

Mick

[seriph1]

put like that, wouldnt morticing actually be easier?

[Jim Carroll]

Has anyone got the plans for these gates. I have seen somewhere else but cannot find them. I would need to hang the long gate of a free standing post what size would you recommend as we need to swing 2.5m .

[seriph1]

hi Jim

on a span like that it might be best to run tension-able cables parallel to the cross braces - whaddya think?

[Termite]

If you aren't going to bolt it , don't do it. What you are in fact constructing is a truss and it has to be bolted in the right places to ensure it works, the layout paramaters for this type are pretty loose. That is, if it looks right it is right. What I mean is if (regardless of size) it looks like about the same angles as your photo. My advice is also to use hardwood.

[outback]

Sag is the killer with these gates. A tensionableingy cable setup is a good idea, assuming it doesn't detract from the looks too much.

If the gates are used regularly, like opened and closed a couple of times a day for a vehicle, I still reckon bolts are needed, maybe with the cable gizmo with screws will hold up.

If on the other hand they are left opened all the time, make a gate holder opener holder upper thingy and screws will be fine.

[seriph1]

I was thinking the tensioners could actually be covered by the brace, which would be rebated to take it

[journeyman Mick]

Steve,
even allowing for drilling and bolting etc, it would still be quicker than morticing, besides mortices will trap water leading to rot. The ones I built six years ago haven't sagged a bit and get opened and closed 3 or 4 times a day.

Mick

[seriph1]

k - good point. would epoxy or poly eurethane glue prevent rot?

I know beer glue certainly doesnt