New windows double glazed

[auscab]

Ive got a kitchen renovation to do.
First thing is some new awning windows are needed and I'm going have a go at making the new frame of one and altering the second one by filling in the bottom half then cover that with plaster and weatherboard. And hopefully fit new double glazed panes to the new and altered parts. If that is a good way to go. Otherwise a new unit will be made so both are new.

Whats the best to go with on the double glazing for cold Vic winters. Is 4mm glass with 6 mm gap good? 4 6 4?
One mate was saying 6 6 6. Another says 4 6 4. 4 6 4 will be easiest for me to fit if using the old frames on the tall one.

The window on the right needs replacing with a taller one to match the height of the left window.
The one on the left can possibly be filled in on the lower section and two new DG Panes added.
IMG_7971a.jpg


Outside view.
That right lower section could be filled with a beam under it for support and framing to take plaster and weatherboards? Or take the whole thing out and replace?
IMG_7985.jpg IMG_7986.jpg

Any recommendations?

Thanks . Rob

[Optimark]

This is something that has been on our minds for the last 37 years in our house. My wife is German and everything over there is double, or in the case of family in the alpine areas, triple glazed.

Last week I was cycling past a house in the next street, where the windows of the entire house were being replaced with something I didn't know existed. A local to me business is manufacturing their windows at Moorabbin Airport, possibly under licence from a German company. Speaking to the installer they were using 6mm glass with a 16mm centre gap filled with Argon.

The material, from what I could glean from their website, appears to be a combined aluminium/plastic, which they call aluplast frames. But that is just a guess. The rellies in Germany pretty much all use 6mm glass these days.

These aluplast windows appear slightly bulky, but the way they were installing them into that brick veneer house was interesting. They were pulling back and sealing everything around the windows with an expanding foam product, which they held a board over until it stopped expanding; removed the board then applied the removed material. The installer mentioned that he was of the opinion that using an expanding insulation product around the entire window frame (or at least where possible) really enhances the sealability of these windows.

https://winplex.com.au/project/awning-window-sunlight/

Mick.

[ErrolFlynn]

Expensive items. I can understand your interest in making your own.

I bought a small second-hand one (maybe about 600 x 600) for an anticipated job a bit down the line. I was surprised at how heavy it was. I fancy that a particularly sturdy window opener might be required if it was to be an awning window.

I’ve heard of a 12 mm air gap, and as noted above, sometimes wider. Your 4 or 6 mm may be a bit narrow.

Make sure you seal them well. Moisture that gets between the panes that’s impossible to remove may be annoying. They might end up looking like your bathroom windows. I’ve also seen dead insects getting stuck in the air gap. You wonder how that happens. Presumably, that doesn’t happen with the commercially available panes – sealed carefully in a dry environment.

You might also like to think about the hinges on the window. Are they in good condition? Will they be able to cope with all that extra weight?

[auscab]

Interesting Mick thanks. I looked at the link . I couldn't see what the glass looked like but saw that it was 6 16 6 . Pretty thick.


Ive just asked for a quote from the Melbourne supplier I was recommended to. For 4 6 4 panes. When I spoke to them this morning they say 4 6 4 is a common size they supply. So that sounds good.
It has me wondering if more glass thickness or greater Gas gap is more efficient?

Pricey they will be but this supplier is used by two of my carpenter / builder friends.
And they are commercial suppliers so quality should be OK.
You saw insects in the gap Errol? That must have been some home made attempt?

Yes I will need to check the hinges and replace of upgrade if no good. The existing ones are these I think.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whitco-g...inges_p4111908


If paying for new frames and glass and the builder to do the lot the $ figure would be quite large and well out of my price range.

These first two (4 DG panes) are the first step to doing the whole living area I hope, which would be 18 more panes that include a tall 4 pane 2 door sliding door set. And if that works maybe the rest of the house room x room.

The living area which includes the kitchen is heated by wood heater and Ill be able to tell by how much wood I have to cut, dry then bring in through winter if its well worth the glazing effort. With the reported efficiency I'm sure it will be worth it.

When we moved here there was just a huge silly brick fireplace for one option of heating. The other was bottled gas radiator. The removal of that wall including the fireplace and installing a quality wood heater made a MASSIVE difference to the amount of wood needed to heat the area for one night. So I believe DG windows will have a similar effect.

Rob

[ErrolFlynn]

It has me wondering if more glass thickness or greater Gas gap is more efficient?

The glass is the conductor (of heat) and the gas is the insulator. [Perhaps if the gas were hydrogen your awning-style window would be self-opening ]

I believe you can get a UV coating that helps too.

[ErrolFlynn]

I will need to check the hinges and replace of upgrade if no good. The existing ones are these I think.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whitco-g...inges_p4111908

With a long window, half a hair's breadth difference in height between left and right would likely cause the window to foul the frame at the bottom.

[auscab]

With a long window, half a hair's breadth difference in height between left and right would likely cause the window to foul the frame at the bottom.

It could do maybe but they hang swing and possibly self adjust by the looks of the ones I have hanging here. There's a metal dome head pin that centers the frame when its closed. And the play for that to work may be the way the pins of the hinge hang on a hook. What ever way it works if it needs adjusting it shouldn't be to hard.

[Optimark]

Interesting Mick thanks. I looked at the link . I couldn't see what the glass looked like but saw that it was 6 16 6 . Pretty thick.


Ive just asked for a quote from the Melbourne supplier I was recommended to. For 4 6 4 panes. When I spoke to them this morning they say 4 6 4 is a common size they supply. So that sounds good.
It has me wondering if more glass thickness or greater Gas gap is more efficient?

Rob

In my wife's home. which was built around 1954/5 in southern Germany and situated around the 950m level. All of the windows were double glazed with the glass being about 4mm and the centre gap was somewhere around 10mm. From personal experience these windows, which were timber framed, weren't flash when we visited multiple times during winters in the 80's.

My two sisters in-law have houses built in the late 80's and their glass is 6mm, this I know as we were visiting while one of their houses was being built and window design was under discussion.

My understanding from one of my wife's nephews, is that 6mm with a wider gap of around 15-20mm was more the norm for colder areas, whereas around 15mm or a bit of a narrower gap was in the cheaper units. I'm not sure if the wider gap is beneficial for cold transfer, or whether it is used as an aid to easier and/or cheaper manufacture.

One thing I do know is their insulation practices, in the 80's in cold areas 450mm wall thickness was the gold standard for modern buildings. The nephew, who is in a really cold place, has 600mm wall thickness on his house, which incidentally was built around the year 2000. All of their windows are triple glazed

And, speaking of wall thickness. My brother in-law took me to see a friend's house, the old part is around 700 years old and has 1.3m thick walls, while the extension, which is 300 years old, only has 1m thick walls. This house is near Tübingen in southern Germany, and it is made of what looks to be a bluestone looking construction.

Mick.

[johnc]

The gap is important, plus you can look at low E coatings for greater efficiency. we retrofitted glass in 4 6 4 because that was what we could fit in the frames. It made a big difference in heat loss and sound transfer. a 10mm to 12mm is better but you have to work with what you have.