customers unhappy with a quote/bill.

gday

im on a bit of a rant here so bear with me.

i am a fencing cotractor. and have struck a lot of dificult customers.

i get people ring up and as for a quote over the phone. now being fencing i can not quote without seeing the conitions that i will be working in. so i range a time to go and see them.

once i get there and no one is home and i have waited around for 45 minutes they finaly arive.

we go and have a loot at the area in question and i ask what sort of fence do you want. and i either get "i dont know whst do you think" and waste half an hour explaining diferent types of fences. or "i want a sawn post and 3 rail fence all the way round the boundry but i dont want to spend a fortune" and i spend half an hour explaining why it is so mutch more dear to put rails than wire.

then explin to the customer that i cant even think about puting a fence up untill they clear a track wide enough to get the tractor in. i measure it all up and walk the line. then go home.

spend adges ringing around gettin prices on materials and working out the quote. ring them up and tell them and they think its to dear. and change the style of fence i do it again and they agree and expect me to start tomorow.

once i arive on the job to find they have cleared a 2 foot wide track with crap all over the ground. have a chat to the customer and agree that they will pay me to clean it properly. put the fence up as per the quote and leave the bill in the male box.

after a week of no reply i ring them to see whats going on and they say there not happy so i got back 3 times to get it just how they want it. and they say they are happy and will get the money for me tomorow. a week late i ring them up and they say they complatly forgot they will have it to me tomorow and then a week latter i get a check writen out to the wrong person.

now not all customers are like this but it really anoys me that people can value you time so little.

Was your quote, and the variation for clearing the track, provided in writing? Was their acceptance in writing?

I've had scumbag clients like this before. If they go like I predict, their next tactic will be to dispute the quote, saying they never agreed to that much in the first place.

Carl there is a short senance to cover all this.

Welcome to the business world. -

Deposits and written contracts/agreements might stop some of this, although i know of a earthmoving contractor who built a huge dam and had the agreement for completion signed by the cocky but when the money didnt turn up he was told the overflow was on the wrong end of the bank. That meant floating a dozer back in changing the overflow and why - because the cocky said he could.

The next time he wanted a job done he paid for the stuffing around the last time as well - the company made sure of that.

Yup, those people are out there. :((

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Originally Posted by weisyboy

and leave the bill in the male box.

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I hate it when my male box is tampered with....:U

I hate it too, Ive raved before about thieving low life scumbags. We have Small Claims Tribunal in NSW which helps. If you file it at Blacktown and they have to drive two hours across Sydney to get there, they get the message as the findings are binding. Im looking forward to putting some stuff on BuySellSwap. "What do you mean you need your water heater? Its only worth 2K and you owe me 3K, OK Ill take the TV, DVD and discs, etc, etc," Enforceable by the Sherriff.

Pathetic, but a little phyrric victory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56

I hate it too, Ive raved before about thieving low life scumbags. We have Small Claims Tribunal in NSW which helps. If you file it at Blacktown and they have to drive two hours across Sydney to get there, they get the message as the findings are binding. Im looking forward to putting some stuff on BuySellSwap. "What do you mean you need your water heater? Its only worth 2K and you owe me 3K, OK Ill take the TV, DVD and discs, etc, etc," Enforceable by the Sherriff.

Pathetic, but a little phyrric victory.

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I doubt that would work, even in an ideal world. :doh:

the blokes wife came up this arvo and gave me cash and apolagised for her husbands behavior.:2tsup:

a nother one was a lady 45mins drive away she requested no quote. we made 5 trips over and back and did a total of 8 hours work with $80 worth of materials and sent her a bill for $500. and she thnks it to mutch. 6 months latter and we still have no money.

also we did a quote for a 5" x 5" square post with 2 - 5" x 1 1/2" rails. he said it was 130m. long story short the quote worked out to 10 - grand. this was to dear so we did it with 3 4" x 2" rails with bush posts and wrked out at - 8 grand still to dear, then we did a quote for bush posts and 4 plane wire - 4 grand then he decided he wanted bush posts and 5 barb wire - 5 grand. he finaly settled on bush posts and dingo mesh - 6 grand.

he was to get us $2000 up front before we even arived.

so we order the 50 round posts required and paid $2500. we arived and he had not got us our money yet but he would pick it up for us today. we started none the less and spent 4 hours boring the post holes for 120m of the fence. still no money so we meaured the remainder and left.

turned out the fence is 190m so i re did the quote and rang him. he could not aford the rest but we are to get the material for it and he will do it himself.

2 months latter we still have no money and the posts are sitting there idle if we dont get anything this week the posts will be removed and taken to the next job. costing us an extra $300 cartage.

And am I right in saying, Carl, that these mongrels tend to be pretty well off? In your area they probably would be.

Never mind, the good ones almost make up for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brickie

I hate it when my male box is tampered with....:U

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At least he can spell AUSTRALIA:wink::D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by weisyboy

the blokes wife came up this arvo and gave me cash and apolagised for her husbands behavior.:2tsup:

a nother one was a lady 45mins drive away she requested no quote. we made 5 trips over and back and did a total of 8 hours work with $80 worth of materials and sent her a bill for $500. and she thnks it to mutch. 6 months latter and we still have no money.

also we did a quote for a 5" x 5" square post with 2 - 5" x 1 1/2" rails. he said it was 130m. long story short the quote worked out to 10 - grand. this was to dear so we did it with 3 4" x 2" rails with bush posts and wrked out at - 8 grand still to dear, then we did a quote for bush posts and 4 plane wire - 4 grand then he decided he wanted bush posts and 5 barb wire - 5 grand. he finaly settled on bush posts and dingo mesh - 6 grand.

he was to get us $2000 up front before we even arived.

so we order the 50 round posts required and paid $2500. we arived and he had not got us our money yet but he would pick it up for us today. we started none the less and spent 4 hours boring the post holes for 120m of the fence. still no money so we meaured the remainder and left.

turned out the fence is 190m so i re did the quote and rang him. he could not aford the rest but we are to get the material for it and he will do it himself.

2 months latter we still have no money and the posts are sitting there idle if we dont get anything this week the posts will be removed and taken to the next job. costing us an extra $300 cartage.

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If they have not paid you then the matrials are still yours. So go back and rip it all out making sure you leave a "bit" of a mess. That gets them wound up.

Hi

Trying to be constructive here, why not work out your costs based on a level easy site so that over the phone they get some idea.

IE: Colourbond fencing is $135 per 2.4m length, timber palings is $50pm etc etc.

Advise them that there are extras as required such as site clearing at $x per hour, rocky sites $x per hour etc.

Or, send them a pack that has your prices and services, as well as the pros and cons of each.

This way they get an idea of the different prices, tell them to have a day or so to think about it, and ring them back again to get an answer. This way if they dont want to go ahead they have that buffer time to think up an excuse. "wife changed her mind, decided to do later etc."

If they are sold on it drive over and work out any extras. They dont need to be there cause you already know which fence they want and are just checking the site. Fill out the quote then and there and put it in the letterbox with your conditions of service, including a 20% deposit upon your arrival with your fencing gear. If they balk at that, tell em to look elsewhere.

cheers

dazzler

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Originally Posted by ernknot

If they have not paid you then the matrials are still yours. So go back and rip it all out making sure you leave a "bit" of a mess. That gets them wound up.

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Sorry but thats not the case, you cannot take back the materials. However you can get a court judgement for the debt and arrange for the sheriff to seize goods for resale if they don't pay. However the sheriff collects and sells, not the person owed the debt. Mind you if you went back and took the installed materials you could be up for criminal damage and theft.

Also trying to be constructive, like dazzler.

On the first phone contact, try to get some of the answers pinned down. Offer to mail them a brochure to establish some of the ground rules, and let them make at least preliminary choices, perhaps in a return-mail questionairre. Let them invest some of THEIR valuable time before you invest too much of YOURS. Might separate some of the wheat from the chaff.

Joe

from my understanding if the customer dose not pay then you have to take legal action if you want your money, however if the materials are not yet used or have been screwd or bolted in place you are legaly alowed to take them back however if the have been permanantly attached that is nailed, cemented or the posts are in the ground then they are then there property.

where we droped the posts is not on the blokes property it is infact on a public easment so we would not be trespasing or anything to retive them.

Carl, in all seriousness,

We get requests for quote all the time on the phone. Its pretty easy to sort out the tyre kickers and the price shoppers. For them I have a standard price list, eg "Art is $120 per hour, 200 colour clicks are 55c inc GST". If they are really interested it gets easier after that. If they are not I tell them to go to the opposition and give them the phone number.

For a customer I dont know a 50% deposit to commence work. No money no work. Ive gotten a bit ruthless about it, I do it to major companies as well now. Ive also got a directors guarantee I insist on getting signed before I extend credit to help if things go belly up. The credit worthy dont mind, the objectors are usually trouble, its another sorting mechanism.

I reckon retailers are on to the right idea, you pay and then you get the goods. For those who dont like it tough. Try asking for a 30 day account at Maccas......

Still companies go belly up, my write off this year will be >30K, mostly from companies that have failed, less from thieving rip off artists than last year. I use a Solicitor and have tried recovery agencies (useless as t!ts on a Bull), well published T&C's etc.

I hate bring ripped off! It is personal as well you know. Id rather lose a sale now than be ripped off. When it comes to money humanity is the lowest species on the planet.

It may be worth adding on the bottom of your quotes something to the effect that all materials remain the property of you until fully paid for.

donna

Hells Angels debt collection agency. ? :roll::;

Carl,
not sure about rural fencing, but for domestic type fencing it's classified as building work and comes under QBSA legislation. I presume you have a license. You can download contract documents from QBSA's website and these include documents for additions and variations which should be signed by both parties before commencing any additions or variations. You can set a payment scehdule (you can't get more than 5% deposit) but you can get payments that are directly linked to work/materials deliverd. Ie 5% deposit, 30% when material are on site but before any further work will take place, 20% when all holes are dug and payable before posts will be placed, etc etc etc. At least this way if you've got a scumball customer they can't sting you for too much before you can legally walk off the job. There is a building industry tribunal which makes legally binding judgements in the case of a dispute.

Mick

happens with everything brother and i set up a shop doing video transfer etc 1st wk had woman in for small job swapping photos to dvd then grew to can we do a slide show for her sons brithday anyway long story short after 3 wks work took slide show after lots of changes , and a lot of our time , small bill about $300 but said she would pay on monday after the sons birthday of cousre no show monday called week later said death in family had to go away for a week and of course still waiting for the money so now we have a new policy of a deposite up front of at least a 3rd of the estimate and also no goods till paid was a good lesson to learn when you are starting up a business!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by weisyboy

gday

im on a bit of a rant here so bear with me.

i am a fencing cotractor. and have struck a lot of dificult customers.

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The most successfull fencing contractor I know who has made a LOT of money has a unique method of payment. He does a quote and if accepted he then orders the material and when delivered the customer pays for it COD to the supplier not him. He then arrives on site and puts up the fence collecting just the labour and concrete/fixing costs etc. By doing this they are hooked into the job and can't back out and if they make things too difficult he tells them where to shove it and they have to find someone else to erect what they have already paid for.