started helping out in a high school and have found everybody looking like this :((
Teachers look like this :((
The kids look like this :((
The principal looks like this:whip:
where are we doing it wrong
l say bring back the Tech schools ASAP
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started helping out in a high school and have found everybody looking like this :((
Teachers look like this :((
The kids look like this :((
The principal looks like this:whip:
where are we doing it wrong
l say bring back the Tech schools ASAP
Talking of faces like this :(( have you ever watched people who play the pokie machines in the clubs, not one of them has a smile on their face.Everyone of them looks like this:((
Maybe they are all teachers.
Australians DO believe in education, Spirit. A professor earns more money in a year than a professional sportsman can earn in a whole week.
Things haven't changed then. Most of the people at school when I was a kid were like that. Maybe you were the lucky one.
I agree silentCQuote:
Originally Posted by silentC
Could it be that regulations have become so overrought (spelling?)
Smiles were only on kids faces when there is a way of getting out of school work.:p
Smiles were only on teachers faces when holidays were coming...... wouldn't you if you got 3 months pay for doing not much.
:? could be for teachers that 3 months holiday and 9 to 3 work hours just is too much to handle, pupil free days, and staff development days.
LOML's many class mates became teachers most have quit, been classified unsuitable, moved interstate to become teachers or stressed out that much they now are on permenant paid leave.
TOO MANY changes, too may *new* ideas that DON'T work etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIRIT
The MOST important teaching IS STILL the three R's, reading 'riting and 'rithmetic. If these subjects are well taught, the rest follows so easily. However, today there are sooo many obtuse courses within the curriculum, that I often wonder how many are relevent to today's kids.
It is a shame that sooo many kids cannot do BASIC mental arithmetic. It is also a shame that sooo many cannot spell or construct a grammatically correct sentence. :C (I hoep I did'nt maake two meni misteaks hear :U )
Haven't you noticed how easy it is to confuse a checkout operator by offering additional money AFTER the cash register has calculated the change!
Can you imagine how BAD written communications will be with the rise of SMS messaging? I know someone that recieved a CV written in the same abreviations as those used in SMS messages. Hmmm? that applicant did NOT get the job!
YESSSSS! I agree. I recieved a great education in Technical College in Liverpool UK. The education, though having a bias toward technical training in manual trades, was STILL a strong proponent for the basics, ie English and Maths. There were also other "normal" subjects such as language (French), art, music, history and Geography.Quote:
l say bring back the Tech schools ASAP
I honestly believe that I had a better education in my day than those kids of today. I think there is probably too much pressure to learn too much that is not necessarily appropriate and therefore the absorption of the *basics* is diminished.
Discipline and respect is required of students to both their parents and teachers. This is another lost trait, there is no discipline these days.
What a farce it is to have pupil free days :o :doh: WHat they're saying is a NO EDUCATION DAY, that's a joke. Kids are NOT getting a good enough education as it is, so why waste time by giving them another day OFF! :~
Mate, it was like kids gaurding thier step ,you drive past in your car and the look you get.
l did it hard at school with my great spelling and all and to boot l was one of the worst fighters in a low ecernomic area
Munruben maybe we are makeing the new breed of pokie players:(
barry wish l was good at basketball like wongo
Silent,C schools seem to be shutting down with hard kids ,they kick them out in a form of herassment and suspention,so they all end up in one school ,where if each school worked on it the load wouldn't as great on the system
Wheelinaround its the hardest job l have come a cross ,give teachers more money ,and it will improve the teachers ,,,l am not a teacher by the way
THE 3Rs what if you just can not keep up ,as l couldn't,where do you fit inQuote:
Originally Posted by MrFixIt
AND YOU SHOULD NOT MAKE FUN OF SOMEBODY JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT AS SMART AS YOU :(( its called bullying
yes to much pressure for some,some maybe thinking about, are they going to sleeping on the street tonight
changed one word twice
9 to 3 that is a joke and when do we keep them trained up to teach our kids :~
bring back tech schools as soon we get peaple to teach in them
so there
My parents were both teachers so I can tell you that teaching is not a 9-3 job. My mother was always marking assignments and preparing class plans and doing heaps of other things at home. Dad was deputy principal so he was always home later and forever organising things.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelinround
As well as that, teaching is the most important job in our nation. Fark the guviment, if we dont have well educated children to do all the jobs in the future we will all be fwarked.
:clap:well said my good man,well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Gingermick
If you want the right to criticise teachers, then you try doing the study and then the paperwork devising work programs and dealing with kids that don't want to be there and pleasing all of the regulations and parents..........
I am sick of people bagging out teachers when they have no idea what teachers do.
I make a rule that in any class I take that the students are to first have a good time and then learn something (and they do work together). If you can make them enjoy being there than they are more likely to learn. Not every teacher is the same, but that is my rule.
There is a hell of a lot of work that is needed to be done on those days and four a year barely allows enough time to get it done! :((Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFixIt
Do you have anything to do with modern kids and their learning? Quite frankly sunshine, as a father of a 14 year old and a 6 year old, one in a public high school and one in a private primary school, I can say that you've got no idea. None at all. Yes, there is a lot of other stuff that is taught, but the kids of today are far better educated than you were. The basics, the 'three R's' as you like to refer to, probably not realising the appalling misuse of the language in doing so, are well taught along with a lot of other stuff you probably have no concept of.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFixIt
Leave the teachers alone. They've got a bloody hard job with an overly full curriculum and they're doing a grand job. Anyone who thinks the 'basics' aren't being taught is not only out of touch, but utterly unaware of the appalling use of the language among the middle aged and older members of society, as evidenced by this forum.
Richard
My missus recently did a semester of tuting at a local uni campus. The tutes were 3 hours once a week. She spent at least 10 hours a week preparing for them, marking assignments, answering emails and doing administration. The hourly rate seemed fantastic on the face of it but she ended up working for less than the minimum wage.
So it seems, that teachers do a good hard thankless job ,my word they do,
so where is it going wrong ,where should the eduction system be heading,
to fit understanding into a teachers day the system needs a over haul
so which modle do we follow ,????
The frowns've been trained onto the kids over half a century.
I know this to be a fact. I never learnt to count high enough to tell you how many times I was flogged or tossed out of a classroom for making people laugh.
Any wonder no-one's game any more!
Cheers,
P
:D :D :D
I spent the whole of year 8 mathematics class sitting on a chair facing the back wall. Getting duster thrown at me every now and again. Twas good fun riling the old bugger:D
I once got the doorknob with a spitball from 5 rows back, best shot of my life, cost me six lots of the cane but ah well...Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
My outlaws were teachers. They look at the modern system and tell me that apart from a few fashion items directed by yet another minister, nothing has changed. That said I must say where my boys go is a really bluddy good school. The reason, lots of variety and dedicated teaching staff. Oh, and there is only 180 kids in the school, none of this economies of scale crap,
Sebastiaan
A see a fair few schools for work and I can tell you each one has its own vibe. Some - everyones happy and all is well , others- as you describe.
It is not school culture in general just the individual school. It sounds like the school you metioned needs a makeover or the principle needs Prozac.:)
I guess putting teachers all in the same bunch is like putting disabled in the same bunch.
My best freinds wife is a teacher special ed for deaf kids recenlty she sought my help for stuff she couldn't do and I'd do it again same No Charge. State gumnt should be thankfull professional would have charged 4 figure's.
I saw my own school days, then my 3 kids, plus teachers while I was working some whom I spent a week with. I didn't like what I saw when away, this I almost called headmasters & parents on a few occassions, due to teacher abuse of power. It would have meant my job so in the end I spoke up on the spot to let them know someone was watching and I was a parent. Asking how would they react to their children being treat that way. I got to see this once when a teacher's child was being balled out in front of them what a reaction same as any parent would for the minor thing the kid did.
The best teachers are usually those who have either time out working elsewhere or tradies who have converted and teach highschool I had 3 of the best there metal n woodies at kingsgove & Puncbowl. TAFE teachers who have had some years of experience in the work place are great also.
I can never see why teachers spend so much time preparing work loads when the 3r's have been the same for generations, many teachers still walk in and say open to chapter and do it, marking well thats part of the job requirements if they don't wanbt to do it then go get another job. In my job I had to prepare commentary quite often for somewhere new but once I had done that all I had to do was add or subtract to it occasionaly.......yeh and like teachers throw in a bit of bull.
I and my kids have had some great teachers in our lives but it's the bad ones who make the biggest mark,. Ihad a number of teachers who were alcho's, druggies, off with the faries. The wose thing I see with teachers is character assassignation, the biggest problem, staff rooms become the killer of fine kids.
Teachers are unique I support the good ones whole heartedly.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
SO YES THE TEACHER ARE A GOOD LOT, I AGREE
so how come schools are turning out so many kids not ajusted to life in the 21st century,one child falling though the gaps is bad ,how many have to slip though before the crim rate rises to a unmanagable level
is that then there will me some real money put back into eduction
l also see a few schools for work do you find the lower eco area have sadder faces:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedin Thumb
Not sure if I agree with "teachers are a good lot"Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIRIT
Teachers could be teaching them crime is the biggest pay packet just look at B Gates stole our souls.
Yes socioeconomic societal levels have a lot to do with it, and if you spend the time there are hundreds of academic articles about it. Also, I believe that the parents have a lot to do with the child's attitude towards school. There are parents that spend a lot of time making themselves interested in their child's education and generally these children do well.Then you get parents that don't have the same interest and the child's scholastic enthusiasm wanes.Quote:
so how come schools are turning out so many kids not ajusted to life in the 21st century,one child falling though the gaps is bad ,how many have to slip though before the crim rate rises to a unmanagable level
There are other reasons though, this is not the sole reasons. I have textbooks here 2 inchs thick that are solely devoted to the psychology of adolescents and the reasons behind their thinking. There are many reasons and the teachers do play a small part in this, but it is an unjustified statement to say that it is the teachers fault!
seems to me that some kids just can not take things in the normal way ,working from a black bourd ,sorry white bourd and most kids mainly boys between 13 and 16 can't think at all there is way to much stuff going on in thier head other than school work
maybe at this age they should take time off school and work under a mentor and come back when they are ready to learn.:?
I think this is very sensible, have a greenie. Brain size shrinks during adolesence, but its when the greatest pressure for marks, future, careers, etc are dumped on the poor kids. For me adolescence was a time of full on rebellion, only got a bit better in my late 20's.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIRIT
The acid question "apart from socialisation and perhaps basic numeracy and literacy how much did you learn that you couldnt have learned elsehere?"
I always hated school, still do I suppose,
Sebastiaan
Hmmmmmmmm, think about it
If you can read this...
If you can comprehend this...
If you can reply to this...
Somewhere along the line,
perhaps, you should consider,
"Thanking a teacher"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood Butcher
This is so true socio-economic has a great deal to do with it.
It means the blinkers handed out by parents from the uppercrust are much bigger,just look at todays roll models of the lime light grabbers.
Teachers have more respect generally for higher income brackets and cirtain proffessions.I have seen a number of teachers put in their place by self made parents, seeing many lower socio-economic's rise to heights beyond teachers.
While the finger is always pointed at those with less, the general hob knob is getting away with much more illegal stuff. Of late a judge who didn't want to admit he'd broke the traffic laws, a number of company directors all from the right side of town who are now serving jail terms for a number of broken laws. A Premier who was working directly for a major corperation, an oppostition leader who since being a kid was just one step away from the law due to his temper. law breakers come from all walks of life.
I have my grandparents (two of which were from the right side of the track but turfed out from their biggotted famlies) aunts uncles mother and father to thank for reading writting and comprehension because they all taught me there is more than one way to interperet anything.
Nah I don't buy that socio economic stuff (besides a lack of funding for most public schools) the "vibe" of the school is dependant on the internal culture that prevails. This has more to do with the management of the school and the attitude of the teachers just like any other work place.
Kids can be just as miserable going to Toff's Grammar, its just that the grammar school has better resources and attracts better staff I guess.
I think it is wrong to tar all public schools in low socio-economic areas with the same brush, some I'm sure are fantastic, vibrant and fun places producing well ballance young adults - I wish my parents sent me to one of them.:C :doh:
EDIT and Bob - Thank a teacher..... thats taking things too far!
Teaching is a stressful, woefully paid job. They deserve more thanks.
I'll thank mine.
If it wasn't for my teachers I would have been a drop out, no hoper, druggie, scumbag, criminal.
Actually, that sounds like a cross between a politician and an advertising guru called siiimon.
So are most service professions, Nursing is another example. High levels of ed required treated like manure. Another example of our governments leading by demonstrating how to do it,Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingermick
Sebastiaan
Kids are miserable because they have to waste so much time at school when they could be off earning a living.
Give 'em some competition to get out into the workplace at 15 instead of wasting their lives stooging around till the end of year 12 and you'd be surprised at how the demeanour would change.
I'm not anti-education, but I am anti and education system that for no good reason keeps kids who don't want to learn in it's clutches for waaaayyy too long.
In our family, two sons-in-law provide stark examples of how this doesn't work. Neither are particularly academically inclined, both are in their late 20's.
One left school at 15 and did an apprenticeship, he's had twelve years work experience in his trade since finishing his time, including a swag as a supervisor, and is now experienced and ready to take the plunge into his own business.
The other, who is no less skilled or intelligent, was offered an apprenticeship, but was "forced" to go back to school to complete year 12. Not wanting to be there, he wasted two years, and left with an attitude that made it difficult to find meaningful work.
He's currently in his second year of an adult apprenticeship, and is going great guns, having a real direction to follow for the first time, just ten years behind where he could have been if it wasn't for this insane pressure to continue up a dry gully.
It's not helping literacy rates, I've never seen anyone who was taught to read in year 12!
Education is a sentence for those that do not see it as a priviledge.
Cheers,
P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingermick
It was the teachers that made me a drop out, no hoper, druggie..... I blame the scumbag, criminal part on me mum!:wink:
That was always my problem. Could've done anything really, but couldn't decide. At 16 I decided I would leave school and go and work for my Dad, maybe take on an apprenticeship as a sheetmetal worker. Then my uncle, who is only 9 years older than me, talked me into staying at school and doing the HSC. Because I wasn't really committed to anything, I just stayed because that was the easiest thing to do. I put nothing into my studies and scraped through by the skin of my teeth. I spent the next 7 years working various semi-skilled jobs, mostly in the building industry.Then one day I met a girl and her flat mate worked for a bank as an IT person (it wasn't called IT then though). She told me how much he earned, so I thought "that's the job for me". I applied for a job with one of the banks and they trained me up as a programmer. Of course I gave them the flick after a few years (8) and went out contracting.Quote:
having a real direction to follow for the first time
The point of all this is that I hadn't a clue what I wanted to do back then. Staying at school just prolonged the decision. I just couldn't get excited about anything academic. None of the trades grabbed me. I think I was meant to be rich, except someone forgot to give me the money.
So here I am, not really qualified to do anything, well OK I have a degree in IT but that's worth less than a sparky's ticket! If this job ever dries up, I have no idea what I would do but it would probably not involve me sitting on my backside all day. But then the missus would have to go out to work and we'd be better off because if the two of us each made half what I earn now, we'd save thousands of dollars in tax each month.
Now, there's a thought....
Well I went to school, then uni, did the first two years of a B engineering then decided that I'd like a break. So I decided to take on a very hard lifestyle. It taught me heaps about myself and led me to serious trouble, both legally and physically.
It only took a fall from 8m onto my head on concrete to jolt me out of it and I decided that being a productive member of society was not only acheivable but laudable (to myself)
Though it sheets me a bit when I think that I coulda bin earning what I get now 10 years ago. :(
Making a saving on tax and not paying as much aren't exactly the same thing though are they:?Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
Well, we would both get the tax free threshold, and some of the bit that I earn that she would be earning instead is taxed at the top marginal rate. So if I could cut that bit out of my pay and have her earning it and paying tax at the lower rate, we would be better off.
Now, I just rushed in there thinking something and blurted it out without giving it full thought. I must be one of those idiots with really high IQ then:oo:
but more likely the dill who doesn't read the whole bloomin question or statement whatever it may be.:B
Join the club!
Late last year the media did a round up of school bank accounts totalling close to $10 million the largest wasn't a toff school but government selective followed by many public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedin Thumb
So why aren't the kids getting the benifits of the funds the intrest alone could be used .
Why are parents still being sucked in by calls for donations, fetes (this is great morale and community booster).
Life after school is what you make it after all Australia is a free country..........:no: