gutter woes

Hi, I am new to this home ownership thing. I have bought an old cottage with a fibro extension c.1990. tacked onto the back of the original house. The back room has french doors leading onto paved pergola area. All very pretty, BUT when it rains heavily it rains straight down the glass of the doors. Obviously the gutter does not cope with the amount of rain running off the roof. It is a box gutter and is nice and clean, as I make an effort to clear away and cut back the rampaging jasmine and wisteria, even though I am wobbly on a ladder. On closer inspection the other day I noticed that a couple of the exposed beams (painted) that run toward the doors are soggy at the end, for about three inches in from the door. Also the corner nearest the doors shows signs of running water and the cornice is soft. Now, do all these timbers need to be pulled out and replaced or can they be patched? Presumably the problem gutter will have to be replaced. Can the bloke that fixes the gutter do the timber work as well or do I have to get someone else in? What causes the gutter to overflow into the cornices anyway? There is an adequate looking downpipe at each corner of the house. what's happening here?

Excuse the ignorance, guys. I am on a learning curve here.

BTW I had a building inspection done for peace of mind before I bought the place. GRRRR.

Thanks.

The box gutter has either not been installed correctly or as you say is too small, or both.

Are the down pipes you mentioned actually servicing the box gutter or are they for the eaves gutters?
Is there an overflow pipe on the box gutter - a small length of pipe poking out the end of the box gutter or maybe on the bottom of the gutter.
It's a bit hard to tell how much will need replacing without actually seeing it, don't suppose you could post some pictures. It sounds like water is getting into the roof space and wall cavity, this is not good as wall frames etc may be damaged.
You will almost definitly have to replace the gutter at least

As far as getting someone to fix it I could do it if I was in adelaide as I have a licence in both trades, this is not the norm and you are going to find it difficult to to find someone to do a good job in both aspects of the job.
Many tradespeople stay away from box gutters as they can be a nightmare.But try ringing a few differant blokes maybe a roofer a carpenter and a builder and when they come out really quiz them about how they are going to rectify the problem.
A couple of things to remember

1. an internal box gutter should have at least two downpipes or one downpipe and one overflow.

2. The top edge of the box gutter should extend up between the roof batten and the roof sheeting at least 150 mm.

3. If you find the person who installed the original box gutter beat him to death with a blunt instument:D

as julian said, we need some pictures to give any worthwhile advice meg.
sounds like you're not intending to try and fix it yourself, try your local paper for handyman/no job too small type guys to come and have a look at it.

Meg,

Was the water damage mentioned anywhere on the Building inspection report? Sounds like it should have been a pretty obvious problem for an inspector to pick up on :mad:

I thought the building inspector should have picked it up too. Nor did he notice the salt damp!!!

When I accepted his report I signed a disclaimer stating I wouldn't hold him accountable etc etc

Am pretty off really -- I probably wouldn't have gone ahead with the purchase if I had known how much work was going to be needed on the cottage. Shan't recommend him to anyone else.

Thanks for your info, guys. I had a builder come out to inspect the water damage. He told me that box gutters work better when they have a box like structure attached to the downpipe -- he called it something but I have forgotten and recommended someone to do the job for me.

He also told me that to replace the rotten beams would mean pulling the roof off - big job. He didn't think the damage bad enough to bring the roof down, but told me to be mindful of it with a view to replacing the beam in the future. Would this be able to be done when I get around to replacing the roof, which won't be too far off in the future I fear?

Is there a licensing body in S,A for inspectors? If so check with them regarding the validity of the waiver you signed. Even without a licensing body it seems to me (totally untrained in law ;) ) that the waiver wouldn't be worth anything anyway. It would be like me getting you to sign a waiver to the effect that if any of my work is defective then you won't have any right to have it rectified. In Qld inspectors must have proffesional idemnity insurance for cases such as yours. You could also try your states consumer affairs/fair trading department. Good luck,

Mick

Mick's on the money.

No one can eliminate their responsiblities by making the client sign a disclaimer to the effect that they are not responsible / liable for their own work.

Fixing the gutters should not be a major deal.

Some pictures would help.

Pulpo

Meg the others have covered most of it, but its confusing whether you have a box gutter or an eaves gutter. The box-like structure you speak of is more than likely a rainhead.

The inspector should be answerable to the Adelaide Office of Fair Trading and Business Affairs -- Licencing on 8204 9644.

If you have someone to fix it make sure you get a quote first.

I'm south of Adelaide and if you get into trouble give me a yell for a second opinion.

thanks, guys for all your help and advice. It is comforting to know there are lots of you out there that know what you are doing and happy to offer advise.

My one good news about my cottage is what I thought was salt damp isn't after all:)

I am getting some quotes on the work needed re the water seepage. I am already feeling better.

there is a company in south aus called "gutta liner" or "gutta guard" or something lika that . look it up on yahoo. it is some sort of plastic liner tha ya put in ya gutter to fix leaks. (think it comes from the barrossa) i was going to use it on a box gutter that was badly corroded but coundnt gat the boss to agree to it. used tar paint instead.(messy stuff):cool:

I am taking your advice and chasing up the building inspector who overlooked the problems that have come to light. Not quite sure how to go about this, but I feel I do need some sort of redress especially as any reparation work is going to be expensive. I have contacted the Master Builders' Association in my state and am waiting to hear back from them. I have also engaged (more expense) a bloke from the Archicentre to have a look through and give me an idea of what needs to be done to address the water seepage and how much it will cost. I have a brand new larger gutter and downpipes so the water from roof is now clearing away adequately, but there is still a problem with water entering the wall cavities from below. I also notice that my French door don't sit on the cement slab, but are butted up against it. Consequently the main frame is rotting from underneath. I am at wits end!
Do builders have any sort of indemnity insurance for this sort of thing? Will I have to go down the legal pathway throwing a whole lot of money at lawyers? After a sticky divorce doing just that, I am loathe to go through the exercise again and would rather spend the money fixing up the cottage. Don't think I will ever buy another house again. Once bitten twice shy!

Meg - Assuming he trades as a company, then the Trade Practices Act will imply terms into your contract, including a warranty that the services will be provided with due care and skill (see http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/pas...0/PA003360.htm). These implied terms cannot be exlcuded (see http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/pas...0/PA003260.htm). So, the waiver might be effective in excluding him from liability in negligence (depending on how it is drafted), but it won't be effective in excluding him from liability under the TPA.

If he doesn't trade as a company, then there may be State legislation (using called the Fair Trading Act) which has a similar effect.

Your issue is going to be proving that he failed to provide the services with "due care and skill".

I have some wood rot in the ends of my exposed beams. I have to replace the roof but have been told that even though there is rot, the remaining timber is solid and the integrity of the roof is not compromised. I have been advised not to replace the beams but rather bog up the damaged bits. Is there a company/tradesperson out there (I live in Adelaide) who can assess the damage from a repair point of view and do the bogging for me? Or indeed tell me that it is probably better to get them out and replace while the roof is off. Thanks guys.

Unless corrected by other learned forum members, Ive always thought that wood rot will continue to rot even if 'bogged up' and should be replaced.This would certainly be easier with the roof covering off.

Meg,
rot is fungal attack and usually even the sound timber surrounding the decayed areas is infected. I prefer complete removal and replacement. In cases of very minor, non structural area rot it could be patched. This would entail cutting well past any areas of visible rot, anf then patching, usually with a graving piece and some bog. (Graving piece = a piece of timber cut to fit a fault/mistake/hole etc).

Is this work being paid for by the inspector's indemnity insurance? (I reckon it should be)

Mick

Hi Meg, sorry to read about your house probs, but hey all is not lost.
Anyway I live in Adelaide also and have a guy I use and recommend highly who is retired but an excellent handyman. He actually is by trade a builder. Let me know if you want me to contact him for you, I have used him and currently using him on my home renovations and cant speak of his quality of work highly enough. One of those old school types very methodic.
PM me if you need his number
Good luck

And Merry Christmas to you and all..................

Yes please, I'd like his number. Thanks.

The story of the building inspector turned into a saga. I wrote to him to express disappointment and he turned up offering to do some reparation work for me, but I haven't seen him since! That was four months ago. So back to square one. Will definately need that handyman/builder.

Meg,
did you contact your state's relevant licensing body or consumer affairs department? In Queensland he would be liable for the cost of any repairs for faults that he didn't uncover in his inspection. I can't imagine it would vary too much from state to state.

Mick

Meg, it sounds to me that you have a square section gutter across the back of the extension, that is for some reason not coping with the rain. We used to have the exact same situation on a place in St Peters SA, and the problem was:

1. The roofing sheets overhung the gutter too much.
2. The gutter had inadequate fall (slope) so the water that was in it moved away slowly.
3. The downpipes were pretty clogged with wisteria leaves.

The result was, that in a downfall, the water would race down the main roof onto the lean-to roof, then a wall of water would approach the gutter. Half of it would go straight over the top and down the face of the gutter and our lovely rear windows. The rest would fill the gutter and slowly ooze out the downpipes. In a big downpour, the water would enter the cieling space and pour into the back room.

We replaced the gutter with a wide half circular affair, with external hangers (so it could be easily cleaned) and replaced the downpipes. In a big pour, we still had some overshoot, but the running inside problem was solved. No water hit the windows from the gutter anymore. I think the overshoot is very hard to fix - the roof is long from peak to gutter, and the lean-to roof is nearly horizontal, so there is a lot of water arriving fast at the edge of the roof.

Hope this helps.

woodbe.

Meg,

Our new gutter was like this one:

http://www.fielders.com.au/images/15...nd_gutters.jpg

woodbe.

Hi
the only problem with that particular gutter is the back of the gutter is lower than the front, so in the event of the gutter filling the water will overflow to the back of the gutter and possibly into the roof space instead of over the front and into the yard. This style of gutter is availible with a lower front.

I tried consumer affairs but they didn't seem to care. Also registered my displeasure with the MBA of which he is a member but nought came of that too. However, I did have a meeting with the said inspector who promised to make amends with the problem of water entering the wall space because the ground level outside is too high (another problem with Lemon Cottage, aside from the overflowing gutter which has now been replaced with an enormous trough like structure with new, larger down pipes). However, he rang me ages and ages ago to say that he was laid up and couldn't do the work right now. Meanwhile I can't do anything around the yard (like termite treatment) until the work has been done. I am at wit's end. I have every sympathy for his illness, but it is frustrating. I have decided to wait until after Xmas and then contract someone else to do the work and simply ask him for my $300 back. According the Archicentre who I had assess the problem, the soil level needs to be dropped around the outside of the cottage on all sides and a membrane slotted in underneath the wall frames to ensure no more water can enter into the structure. I don't know where to start getting blokes who can do this so if any of you have any ideas I would appreciate it...
Thanks, Meg

oh dear...

julianx. Yes, you are correct. Our new gutter had the lower front as you describe.

meg. Whilst it'd be nice to peg this guy with costs, I think it will be far more rewarding, and less stress to fix the problems and get on with life.

The first thing to do is to drop the soil level and direct runoff away from the house. You may need to fix the dampcourse problems, but unless you have a money vault, I'd just fix the level and runoff to start with and wait a season or two to see what happens - you may well find that removing the water pressure from the existing wall is enough to make the problem go away.

The only real fix for no dampcourse is to insert one, but it may not be required if there is little or no water ever near the foundations.

We fixed a disasterously bad dampcourse problem in a city building with a mob that cut a slot in the bottom of the wall and inserted a dampcourse bag in the wall which was pumped up with grout after installation. Very effective in our case, and a fraction of the cost of undersetting, which is the traditional method. Still expensive though.

woodbe.

Meg send me a pm and I will give u his number
Or give me yours and I will call u and pass his number on

what's a pm?

My private email is elitefun@hotmail .com...............send me a message there and I will reply

:)