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Thought I might try using a 38mm straight router bit for the scribed curve of an internal corner using 61mm bullnose skirt.
Is this a reasonable idea or am I looking for trouble trying to use a router on the end grain of the timber. I have dozens of these joins to make and I hate using a coping saw to make them.
I don't think there's any problem with cutting end grain per se. You might have trouble with the little curved bit snapping off though, you may need to muck about with feed direction and so on. Try it with some offcuts. I suppose you'll mount the router in a table and set up a fence? Either that or you could make a template that slips over the end. Let us know how you get on, I've got two house lots to do next month :(
One of the this Old House Episodes had a device for scribing joints. I was Impressed but not enough to remember properly.
Some one may remember.
Cheers
eek...Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw
even setting up a jig on a router table I don't like your chances, is possible certainly but definately not worth the trouble to get good results.
how are you cutting your skirting atm, you using a drop saw to cut an internal mitre on the skirting then using a coping saw to cut around the line of the mitre ? Is no quicker way I know of for scribing skirting.
having all your scribed ends on the left end of the length of skirting will make it easier aswell. I cut the internal mitre then flip the skirting over reset the saw to a square cut and cut down vertically to the start of the curve of the bullnose, then use the coping saw to cut around bullnose shape.
if you cut your skirting starting from the lefthand side of the room, your first piece will be a square cut on both ends, the next piece following on will be scribed on the left end and a square cut on the right end and so on around the room.
if you're still not interested in scribing, you can mitre the internal joints aswell. Use plenty of glue around the joints.
christ...would take me 30 seconds to show you in situ, takes forever to describe it in words. Apologies if you can't follow it all :)
Are you talking about coping a joint for a skirting board? It's not that difficult to do by hand but if you have a lot to do it can be time consuming.
You might have a look at this link on using a Collins Coping foot for a jigsaw. Here's where to get one. They're only $8.75 US.
This also looks useful.
As I already had the bit and I haven't got the "NO THIS IS DANGEROUS" message, I'll give it a try and post the results.
Silent - Yes I will be using the Triton table with a fence - probably using the slide with the protractor thingy with a stop for the slide. Might be a little difficult for the longer pieces - 2m or longer but all the PITA short lengths could make it that much easier and give me that nice round curve that I have troulbe creating with a coping saw.
The Pope - I always scribe an internal skirt joint, never use a 45 deg mitre for internal. All my skirts are being changed from ugly white painted 1 1/2" x 1/2" square to 3" bull nose with clear coat lacquer (estapol sanding seal & estapol clear gloss). Once you drop the painted finish you can't use fillers to correct any gaps in your work. My joints must be near perfect of I'll see it every time I walk into the room. Already I'm going nuts with the paint finish on walls where I missed a small scratch etc.
MarkH - Thanks for the link but I only have a cheap B&D jigsaw as I don't use this type of tool very often. From what I can see I probably wouldn't be able to source the right fitting for a B&D. BTW - I would probably make a bigger mess with a hand held jigsaw than I would with a coping saw. As you said its not that difficult, its just trying to get a nice smooth curve in the right shape using a saw blade and sandpaper on a block.
The coping foot wont help in this situation because it is designed for crown mouldings, which are on the rake. Skirting is flat and so you can cope it with a jigsaw and a normal flat foot if you want. It's the same as doing it with a coping saw.
What ThePope is suggesting is that when doing it by hand, you cut the 45 degree mitre, then you use the line between the edge of the mitre and the face of the board as the line to follow when coping. This is how I do it.
I'll be interested to hear how you get on though. I wonder if, given the difficulty of handling long lengths with a stationary table mounted router, you might not be better to make up a template on a sleeve and take the router to the job?
With a little practice and care you'll acheive those results with ease, forget routers, jigsaws or anything else and stick with the easiest method...Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw
Coping Saw.
Here, here, and as you said earlier, find the scribe line by making a 45º cut with a CMS.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePope
Cheers
Michael
Well - I tried it and it works well. Easily repeatable consistant results all with a good machine finish which just requires a small touchup with the sandpaper to remove the dags. :)
It took longer to change and set the router bit and fence, all of 5 minutes, than it takes to do the cut, about 90 seconds.
Silent - if you take it nice and slowly and feed the end from right to left with curve on right, back to table, it didn't knock the tip off. I used the protractor to maintain distance to cut and the fence as the starting distance to cut ( i don't think that makes sense even to me :confused: ) Anyway if you want I'll take a pic or two.
To all the nay sayers who said use a coping saw and put up with it - you can picture me poking tongue out and blowing rasberries. If we all took that sort of advice we'd still be in the stone age.
Oh contrare! The coping saw method is still faster than the router. I'm sure that with a mitre saw to mark the scribe line, a handsaw to knockoff the straight cut and a coping saw to cut the curves it takes about a minute to cut the joint. I'd like to see you cut a colonial or fancy skirt with a router, and you'd have to have a different radius bit for every thickness bullnose you come across. If retaining skills with handtools is seen as staying in the stoneage or conversely, that loosing them is seem as progress, then ugh, me want to look like my avatar and live in cave. :p :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw
Cheers
Michael
Bloody hell mate. never heard of using a router for scribing skirting:D
Cant beat the good old coping saw, mitersaw,angle finder and workmate;)
bullnose is one of the easier ones to scribe with a coping saw
cheers. Gary.
LOL...Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw
Well if your happy with the results and how you got there, that's all that matters in the end :)
post a few pics of the process from start to end of a cut if you can.
You just don't get it!
I find it easier to use. I'm not asking you to change your ways. I personally don't care if you adopt this method or continue to use a coping saw. All that matters to me is the success of what I have attempted and for those that may be interested I would share my method.
My original post was for your comments on whether it would work and whether it might be dangerous in any way ie spits the timber out to which I found it as safe as any other process using a router in table. I wasn't concerned with if its the nornal way or the loss of skills with hand tools, just whether it was possible to attempt safely.
My house is based on 3" bullnose skirts & architrave and I have no interest in collonial or any other profile.
ThePope Thanks for the understanding :) I shall post some pics
No, actually I do get it. I often try novel ways of using tools (often inept ways :) ) But when people try and explain a technique that I'm having trouble with, I stop listen and try and take in what they're saying and try and understand why I'm having trouble with it. Or continue on my merry blind way ;) . I don't usually get on my high horse and shout at the people who are trying to help me.
And I'm happy that routing works for you.
Cheers
Michael
The only drawback as i see it in using the router is that with the coping saw it is so easy to undercut the scribe for truely tight and neat finish. Other than the difficulty in manouvering the timber rather than the tool
if it works for you use it
I have a house full of skirts that I am going to have to do soon - but I am having some problems visualising how to scribe a joint. Like the Pope said, ssems liek it would be simple enough for a hands on demo, but I'm buggered if I can get my head around how it works reading about it! Anyone got some step by step pics using the coping saw method?
Just fit one skirt to the wall, right into the corners with square cut ends. Make a 45º cut on the other piece of skirt, as if you are going to do a mitre joint. Now using the coping saw, cut along the edge the saw blade has made on the face of the skirt. Slightly undercut with the coping saw, ie take more off the back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben (TM)
Cheers
Michael
As mic-d said,and lay the skirt down on your saw stool with the back on to the stool.Then look down on to the 45 you have cut.
Tools
I have just looked at this thread for the first time so thats why I didn't stick my bib in earlier.
Using a router can work really well. Believe me I do this a lot. I do fix outs for a living.
Talking about 65 or 90 mm colonial profile skirt here.
The method Pope described in his first post.
Working left to right
Cutting the mitre with the skirt standing up against the fence upside down
Turning the saw back to just over 90 degrees and cutting down to the beginning of the profile.
Now comes the router bit.
I have a small router with a small straight bit mounted upside down on the drop saw bench so it is only inches away from where the cut just happened
Just flip the skirt on its back. turn the router on and go around the colonial profile.
A bit of practice and it all happens in about ten seconds.
People who say this won't work, well I'm afraid they are wrong.
I often have carpenters from a job next door or nearby who wander in to say G'day and are very interested when they see how I do it.
I must do literaly thousands of these false mitres in a year. And I have been doing fixing for more years than I want to remember:rolleyes:
Now I am not saying this will suit every one, but I am saying it can be made to work very well.
Greolt
EDIT: just trying to make it a bit clearer
How big is the router bit Gre, 6mm or smaller still?
Cheers...............Sean, your lowly scribe :)
I have used smaller but now use 6mm.
It depends on the profile in the skirt and whether you can get into the "corners"
6 mm works with profile of the skirt that we have been using
Do one and try it for fit up.
The other thing to mention with doing this is that the skirt that you fit up to
(the peice already there) must be standing up straight, if you know what I mean.
Or you won't get a nice tight fit.
Greolt
After reading this, I am going to have to look at giving this a go. I have just laid all my skirting in a room at home and I mitred the joints and the used no more gaps to fill in any gaps that shouldn't have been there. I will give this method a go for next time.:)
Thanks Gre...........cheers............Sean
It used a circular saw mounted in a device like a pantograph, which allowed the saw blade to follow the shape of the moulding. The saw cut at about 90 degrees to the cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider