Australia Day

this may be a red herring or a nuclear bomb depending which direction this takes.

I am confused.... ( not hard) If we change the date, what will that do?
We will still celebrate this crazy wild land we enjoy to live in,
why are our aboriginal family wanting this stopped changed?
Our ancestors arrived and (in todays society made a ballsup) but will changing the date change that?
They will still remember today as takeover day, but also remember not all local people hated whities, some actually accepted them and tought us many things

Would someone please try and clear this up without turning this thread into a witch hunt.

Admins.... If it heads in that direction please please shut it down, I have enough trouble on other motor forums about...he said, he hates etc etc SICK OF IT ALL

if you're worried about it going south - I'm not sure why you started it then??
:?

The only way to get balanced discussion here is unfortunately to make sure you have a balanced representation. Given the huge population imbalance, this little niche in the interwebs is, as most are, a most unlikely places to get appropriately balanced commentary. I know I have none of the answers you seek but recognise the dichotomy of this day

I can see the point of many activists and don't disagree with their objectives, but unless you can present something physical than can be turned into legislation not much will happen.
Climate change a good example, some say the science is settled - OK publish it in a concise form and let it be audited.
I support looking after our planet, but still waiting for the HOW on a global scale.
Same goes for 26th in it's own way.
Sometimes the most passionate activists are the people who set their own cause back by losing the attention of the majority who don't want anything to do with radicalism.
Prob a bit more than 2c worth. :rolleyes:

I grew up on a farm in country QLD and moved to Brisbane 20 years ago, so I have been exposed to a range of different values, not sure this qualifies me but here is my 2 cents.

I was born here and took living in Australia for granted and did not realise this until I went to a citizenship ceremony. Immigrants at the ceremony were really proud and happy to become citizens. At this point I thought I realised didn’t understand how much immigration and citizenship meant to people nor could
I understand how much being an aboriginal means.

In my opinion If the traditional owners want the date changed bring it on.

A date that appears to bring hurt to a segment of society for a reasonable reason should be changed. Just remember Easter is I different date every year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

There are a number of articles written by Warren Mundine where he states that the majority of First Australians are quite happy with the date and don’t want it changed.

You can please some of the people some of the time but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Are some of the activist just causing a commotion just for change?

How come some councils believe that we should not celebrate Australia Day (or Queens Birthday Holiday) but still shut their doors on that date?

Perhaps the answer is that just about every public holiday will offend one section of the community, then perhaps we should not have public holidays.

If you want to change the date from January 26, (Arrival of the first fleet) then what date that will not upset someone else would you suggest? Currently it is summer and just before the start of a new school year.

I am proud to be Australian and thankful for where I live having been born here and never left. I have not endured what others have to come here, or what they have left behind. While this country is not perfect, it is not too bad either.

I do not have any answers, only more questions and comments.

Is the specific date of Australia Day (26 January)significant in itself? It may not be as steeped in history as we are led tobelieve. I extracted this information from Wikipedia.

1. Whilst there were some celebrations as early at1818, the occasion was not known as “Australia Day” and celebrated in that veinby all states until 1935
2. It was not until 1994 that this day wasconsistently a public holiday and celebrated by all states.
   

If changing the date would mean little to any impliedoffence, then it matters little either way. It would seem to me that for manypeople (a very casual remark on my part) providing there is still a public holidayassociated the great unwashed don’t really give a monkey’s toss when it occursother than a Monday may be the preferred time.
This year is a good example where the holiday is earmarkedas the following day.

Back to my original question and the answer is probablyalong the same lines as birthdays. Some significance, but birthdays don’tusually create too much offence, although some births could arguably bedeclared undesirable.

I have a friend who is passionate about Australia Day andAnzac Day . They are the days of the year where the prime objective is tocompletely write himself off.

If Australia Day moved to a different day there is probablyno real issue. However, if there was a move to create another day ofcelebration with indigenous significance it would mean an extra holiday and Ican foresee intense debate over that by both the government and the businesssector. The public from their part may be unwilling to relinquish one of theother public holidays in “payment.”
I appreciate I have not really posed any answers to thequestion: Merely raised issues without solutions!

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by forrestmount

In my opinion If the traditional owners want the date changed bring it on.

A date that appears to bring hurt to a segment of society for a reasonable reason should be changed.o

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Further, if someone wants to argue they shouldn't be offended/hurt by the date because we are now a different country/people/whatever then the reverse of that argument must also be true: changing the date shouldn't be a problem because we are a different country/people/whatever.

Republic Day has a nice ring to it. 26 July would be super.

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Originally Posted by q9

Republic Day has a nice ring to it. 26 July would be super.

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weather is too cold for a BBQ :oo:

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Originally Posted by Tonyz

weather is too cold for a BBQ :oo:

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... said nobody in Queensland, ever! :cool:

Just for a moment I'd like you to imagine that we lost WW2. Another foreign government now runs the joint. Some of us spent our childhood fishing and walking in the Ku-Ring-Gai National Park North of Sydney and many still do. It's a beautiful place and its ours.

Now imagine that our foreign rulers declare that the area will be developed to provide accommodation for their retirees from the Northern hemisphere and all Australians would be banned from entering. You could be shot if you try. By the way, Australians are now treated as an underclass and imprisoned at a much higher rate than our masters, especially when we get a bit uppity or take to the drink to soothe our hurt, or kill time when we can't find work.

How would you feel? Not all that flash I imagine. I, for one, wouldn't feel like saluting their flag or celebrating our loss in the war. Some might, but not me.

mick

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Originally Posted by Glider

Just for a moment I'd like you to imagine that we lost WW2. Another foreign government now runs the joint.

and


How would you feel? Not all that flash I imagine. I, for one, wouldn't feel like saluting their flag or celebrating our loss in the war. Some might, but not me.

mick

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That's exactly what happened in WW2 in the Nazi occupied countries of Europe. Except it was worse then the way the British treated the Aboriginals.

As an immigrant I sympathize with them and don't agree that the date of the landing of the first fleet should be the day for celebrating the coming together of the various colonies to form the Commonwealth of Australia which was on the 1st of January and not the 26th.

So why don't we change it to take their view into account.

Peter.

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Originally Posted by forrestmount

Just remember Easter is I different date every year.

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That's because Easter is calculated on a lunar cycle

Oh goodness, only the names and places have been changed to protect who knows whom.

We have similar problems except from American Natives (Indians), African Americans, Armenians, Jews, Latino Citizens, Irishmen, Italians, Illegal Immigrants, etc. I can't remember all of them. They all want something. It seems little and insignificant at first but the intent is to eventually arrive at almost full control. (It's how the Evangelicals got us Trump, but I digress.)

So my friends, the way to look at it is like this. We have a tree, keeping in a woodworking theme, the California Redwood. Some of these Redwoods have been growing for over 2000 years and if you have ever been in a Redwood forest, you feel rather insignificant.

Then along comes little Johnny with his Boy Scout hatchet intent upon cutting this magnificent 2 M in diameter tree down. Little Johnny starts to work with his hatchet, a whack here, a chip there and his mum calls him in for dinner. This continues every day for 10 or 15 years until finally the tree falls. Did little Johnny accomplish anything? Of course not but he destroyed.

Here, when they get their way, we all lose a little bit. While the real answer is to fit in and try to conform. When every one works toward being part of a single society it is better for everyone. Or put another way, When in Rome do as the Romans do.

When it comes to changing a calendar date, there is the one that almost everyone would appreciate and is temporary and lasting only 8 years. When one becomes a teenager, subtract 8 from the year of their birth. Then 8 years later, restore their birth date to normal. As a benefit this process would destroy the illegal business of manufacturing phony identification cards.

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Originally Posted by rrich

We have similar problems except from American Natives (Indians), African Americans, Armenians, Jews, Latino Citizens, Irishmen, Italians, Illegal Immigrants, etc. I can't remember all of them. They all want something. It seems little and insignificant at first but the intent is to eventually arrive at almost full control.

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Yes, they all want to not be treated as second class citizens by a bunch of bigots.

What do they all want that bothers you so much? Name one thing for each group you mentioned. I'm also curious as to why you've left off a few very vocal/prominent groups from that list; sorry, but I don't believe for a second you 'forgot' about the non-straight/non-binary community and I'll bet you didn't forget the Muslims either.

I'd also like to know what you feel you've lost in the process. Go on, I'll wait.

The intent is to arrive at full control? The f*** it is.

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When every one works toward being part of a single society it is better for everyone.

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That's true, but just telling everyone to conform and ignoring cultural differences is definitely not better.

And in the interest of full disclosure, I'm Jewish.

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Originally Posted by Lappa

There are a number of articles written by Warren Mundine where he states that the majority of First Australians are quite happy with the date and don’t want it changed.

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Exactly, the Aboriginal community is a very small part of the population and the number who are offended by the date is a small proportion the Aboriginal community. If we change things based on a few people being offended then we will have to change everything all the time because someone will always be offended by almost anything.

Just wondering of those who have commented how many have spent time in Aboriginal communities, particularly remote communities and by remote I mean places that the general population normally need permits to enter? I have and have friends that have worked in these communities as Police officers, store managers, social workers and teachers. Spend a bit of time in these places and you will quickly realize that the date of Australia Day is not even in the top 1000 issues, it is however a great boat to push by the activists as this argument could go on for decades, and as long as they are busy fighting the good fight they can ignore the real problems that are just too hard to deal with.

I am pretty sure my son would be upset if they changed the date as he has always liked having a public holiday for his birthday :wink:

Cheers Andrew

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by AJ.

Exactly, the Aboriginal community is a very small part of the population and the number who are offended by the date is a small proportion the Aboriginal community. If we change things based on a few people being offended then we will have to change everything all the time because someone will always be offended by almost anything.- - - Updated - - -

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Neither you nor I, nor Warren Mundine, a Bundjalung man who grew up in Sydney, can really know and only a plebiscite among indigenes would settle the matter. What I do know is that blackfellas are sick and tired of being discriminated against in their own country and having whitefellas tell them what's good for them. At least we now have an indigenous Minister for Indigenous Australians. This is not just any offended minority, they have 60,000 years of occupation behind them. Even Scotty from Marketing has coupled the acknowledgement of traditional owners' country with other groups.

The Maoris have had allocated seats in the NZ parliament since 1867. They had well defended forts and were sufficiently organised and warlike to force the Treaty of Waitangi. Had our aboriginal nations been as organised, things would have been very different in this country.

mick

I grew up in an Aboriginal community. My father was the local cop. He was sent there to try and bring some reconciliation after many years of heavy handed policing which had caused a massive rift within the community. Those years were the best years of my life. Australia Day was a very sore point with the locals (can't say I blame them) not much for an indigenous fella to get excited about. I was 8 years old when we arrived. It was all a bit tense at first but within no time I had been accepted by the kids and soon after their mums and later the dads. My father had to wait a little longer for his right of passage as previous police officers thought it was their duty to uphold the "law" by whatever means they chose. To be honest, I think they were just s#*t scared. Dad was a pretty good pug and quickly set up a gym for the kids. Entry fee= must have attended school that day, or if a weekend, it had been school on Friday. Well that solved the truancy problem. A couple of the dads had had some boxing experience and my father was more than happy for them to become involved. They were great times. Everyone was treated as an equal and respect reigned supreme.
Roll forward 40 years. It was time to take my kids to see how and where I grew up. I parked the car and while the wife and kids had a feed, I headed, on foot, down the main street. In no time a paddy wagon pulled up beside me and a young cop stuck his head out the window and asked where I was going. I told him I was looking for old friends. He told me to get back in the car and get out of town as a cop had been threatened with a broken bottle the night before and they didn't want me causing any more trouble. I politely told him I was happy to take my chances. Shortly after I met up with a couple of old school mates. They told me the cop was justified in warning me off as things had very much got out of hand over the last few years and had now come to a head. They suggested we come for tea and spend the night. My wife and kids loved it. For me it was a very sad occasion and one I will never forget.
Roll forward another 10 years. I am cooling my heels in The Sydney Eye Hospital after a corneal graft operation. In comes a black fella, tosses his bag under the bed next to me and says "G'day." I say "G'day yourself Jimmy." He says, "How you know I'm Jimmy?" I said, "Cause you is." I tell him who I am and he's gobsmacked. We haven't seen each other since school. He comes and sits on the side of my bed and we "go bush" for the next half hour. The cleaner comes in mopping the floors and abuses him for leaving his bag under the bed. My bag was under my bed too but I wasn't privileged with a dressing down. Oh the joys of being a black fella.
Australia Day is for ALL Australians, be they new or old. Why on earth would you have it on a day that solicits such a varied response?

Ken

That is both a heart warming and heart wrenching tale. I am very glad you took the time to tell us.

Unfortunately prejudice is alive and well: Not everywhere, but still in sufficient places to be laden with friction. My son was very proficient with the didgeridoo and used to busk in Toowoomba, In fact he made more money per hour at that than as a mature age carpenter's apprentice. He was playing outside a pub one night and a crowd of young people had gathered just enjoying the spectacle. After a while a full blood aboriginal came along and planted himself next to Simon on the ground where he was performing. Simon was a little phased at this and offered him the didge to play.

The old aboriginal just shook his head and announced "I just listen."

Simon continued to play, but within a minute the crowd had dispersed and only Simon and the aboriginal remained.

Regards
Paul

I hope the significance of the old chap planting himself beside your son was not lost on him? That was an act of respect. Its the subtleties of the culture that make it so interesting.
Maybe if a few more Aussies took a leaf out of the old chaps book, "I just listen," we would do a whole lot better.

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Originally Posted by rustynail

I hope the significance of the old chap planting himself beside your son was not lost on him? That was an act of respect. Its the subtleties of the culture that make it so interesting.
Maybe if a few more Aussies took a leaf out of the old chaps book, "I just listen," we would do a whole lot better.

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I don't know if he understood the significance, although I believe he felt it was a mark of respect that the old guy should sit with him while he was playing their traditional instrument. I know that Simon was outraged that the white audience should move on because the aboriginal had the audacity to sit with him!

I agree, we could all listen a bit more.

Regards
paul

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I agree, we could all listen a bit more.

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In varying quantities of "a bit".... !

Elan,
I am what is best described as a non-practicing Christian. I like it that way.
You are Jewish and I'm sure that you like it that way also.
If you need extra time off from work/school in March/April and September, October and December to follow your religious beliefs, please do so as I would never interfere.
When you are told by some crazy religious group essentially that their way is the only way, you are offended just as much as I am upon hearing the same thing.
There in lies the point, do your thing, I will not interfere. Let me do my thing without interference. Don't force me to do your thing.
As a youngster I have been taught and firmly believe today that I don't have to believe, I don't have to convert but without question I must respect the other man's religion.

And the ultimate here just the other day, Jim Baker said, "If you don't support Trump, you can not be saved." Excuse me while I puke.

I'm sure that you've heard of the Bakers. Tammy Faye Baker's most famous quote, "We're down to our last $65,000." During Jim's trial.
Jim was convicted and served time for Mail and Wire fraud along with a single count of conspiracy.

If I have offended you, I apologize.

The entire point is that all these groups want to be allowed to "do their thing".

You haven't offended me, but I'm still waiting to hear what all of these people want that will somehow infringe on you and what makes you believe they want to control society, rather than simply wanting to be left alone to do their thing.

If you can't back up your assertion with something solid, I think you need to withdraw it because, to me, "they all want something", "the intent is to eventually arrive at almost full control" and "the real answer is to fit in and try to conform" all sound a lot like what Trump supporters are saying and, based on your other comments, you don't seem to identify as one.

In your terms, what we want is to welcome anyone from a special group as an equal. As in just be part of the group.

"Anyone from a special group." What does that mean? I think one of the problems confronting the average Aussie is the glaring lack of culture in our society and this in turn creates an affront when others present with theirs. Meat pies, Kangaroos and Holden cars just doesn't cut it in the global context. Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi. is an Oi anyway? The National Anthem is a dirge of which the average Aussie is only familiar with the first verse and the rest is shrouded in mystery. National Dress? Well now we are getting some where! Thongs, singlet and stubbies of course. Not that I have anything against thongs, singlets and stubbies on a hot day but again, in the global context, one must be prepared to accept a lower ranking.
To think, that on our very door step and in our time, we have one of the oldest, continuous cultures in the world and yet most average Aussies know almost nothing about it. How far have we really come in the last 200 years?

Fantastic avoidance of the question Rich, have you considered moving into politics? I won't push it any more, it's clear to me that you either can't or won't back up your initial claims with anything substantive.

Elan, Maybe a little harsh. I am sure there are those out there who are control driven. Are they the majority? Fortunately not. Well not in this Country anyway. But things can easily change. The more hostile the situation becomes the more intense the mindset becomes. It is a natural progression, we see it in so many other Countries and history smacks of it. The problem may not be unique to any one Country but the circumstances encapsulated in the problem are. We err when we jump to a generalisation of an overall theme, or dogma, be it for or against. An open mind and a sense of fair play is required by both parties in any dispute to come up with a mutually satisfying agreement.

I don't think it's at all harsh to expect some sort of supporting evidence for the claim that a whole bunch of ethnic groups a) "all want something" and b) "are intent on nearly full control".

Anyone who's going to be making accusations like that in a public space should be prepared to either put up or shut up.

Yes, I am aware that I might be taking it more personally than others because I am part of one of the named groups (and, quite frankly, we've been putting up with this kind of s*** on and off for the last 2000-ish years). I'm happy to see and potentially respond to any actual evidence or arguments, but I'm not prepared to just let something like that slide.

Elan, You seem to have missed my point entirely. I understand your point of view and I agree that many peoples have been coping s#*t for many years all round the world. But surely you can see that often the purpose of the persecution is to gain control. Or those that have tried to gain control and failed have become the persecuted. Either way, someone gets a kick in the guts. As I stated earlier, history is full of examples of intolerance. Even today we have the same old problem raising it's head with monotonous regularity in many Countries around the world. Why? Power.
You are taking Rich to task for generalising without qualification but in so doing you are guilty of the same crime. Just because you feel your cause is just, it does not mean that all others out there are of the same mind set. Agendas are as varied as the people pushing them.

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Originally Posted by Tonyz

this may be a red herring or a nuclear bomb depending which direction this takes.

I am confused.... ( not hard) If we change the date, what will that do?
We will still celebrate this crazy wild land we enjoy to live in,
why are our aboriginal family wanting this stopped changed?
Our ancestors arrived and (in todays society made a ballsup) but will changing the date change that?
They will still remember today as takeover day, but also remember not all local people hated whities, some actually accepted them and tought us many things

Would someone please try and clear this up without turning this thread into a witch hunt.

Admins.... If it heads in that direction please please shut it down, I have enough trouble on other motor forums about...he said, he hates etc etc SICK OF IT ALL

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I have been thinking about this thread in some depth: Well, as deep as my brain will go. The original 10% theory about brain usage has been debunked, although I may be the exception that proves the rule. It is probably more to do with the way we use our brain. Much in the same way as it doesn't matter how good are our golf clubs or tennis racquet but more importantly the way we use them.

Tonyz asked us to maintain a little decorum in the thread and mainly we have, particularly bearing in mind how contentious this issue is and how easily it can slide into general prejudice. That is not a plea to steer a different path, but to be respectful in the way we phrase our views. Take the British Houses of parliament. "The Hon. Member for Wapping appears not to have had the benefit of parents." We know what he means and is a little more subtle than Gough Whitlam when he retorted, "I remember." to Sir Winton Turnbull's tirade, "I'm a Country member."

Of course we are not like that here and have no parliamentary privilege behind which to retreat: So we are not going down that track. Enough of the digression, but I hope the contributors to the thread have picked up that much of what is being said is both valid and quite acceptable comment. We should choose our words so as not to cause offence even if we ourselves are in some way offended. This is not an easy task and if I told you I had never been guilty of it, it would be a lie.

To allow this thread to continue we should become gentlemen or ladies (not a recommendation for a transgender procedure).

I have myself attempted to contribute to this last section of the debate and twice I have scratched my words. It is not an easy task. I am still working on it and make no promises to come through with anything at all sensible. In the meantime I look forward to continued debate by the current and maybe new participants with thought provoking ideas.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by rustynail

You are taking Rich to task for generalising without qualification but in so doing you are guilty of the same crime.

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I'm genuinely confused here... How is asking for evidence to support an accusation the same thing as making an accusation?

You are quite right Elan, it isn't the same thing. Asking for evidence is one part of the discussion and when that evidence is not forthcoming it creates an opportunity for accusation. If that opportunity is seized upon a stalemate is reached. Maybe better to pose the question differently and see if that has the desired effect. It is understandable that personal involvement makes the issue more sensitive but it can also narrow the perspective and in the interest of finding a solution it is important to retain a broad minded approach. After all, by your own admission, your "Mob" have been up against it for over 2000 years. Maybe time to change the approach. It is interesting to note that throughout this discussion you have not indicated your acceptance of any point drawn to your attention. It makes it difficult for others to see what your take is on the overall state of things. This is not a court of law. None of us are in the dock. It is an opportunity to express our views without fear or favour.
Elan, we are not the enemy. You are among friends.

About 25 years ago, I was at a party in Sydney and made a remark which was intended to be humorous but was mildly racist to aborigines. A short time later an older indigenous bloke, who had obviously overheard, came up to me and said "I love you". He was a Korean war veteran and one of the loveliest men I've ever met. He went on to tell me how, when he visits his mate in Cairns and borrows his Mercedes, the cops pull him over because they think he stole it. He smiled as he told me. A life changing moment.

Shortly afterwards I happened to be in a position where I could instigate a scholarship program to one of the best schools in Sydney. Since that time, we've managed to award 42 six year scholarships each year, a total now exceeding 800 students. I meet them at a reception every year and they number some of the best kids I've ever seen. The program has now spread nation wide and has federal funding.

So where up we up to in this lively discussion? One view, I think, is that people should try to assimilate and not try to change things. I disagree with that one. The republic referendum destroyed my previous faith in the collective wisdom. Sure, lots of minorities would like their views adopted and most fail miserably. But some proposals have real merit and many among us understand the hurt coming from the drip, drip, drip of racism and injustice, present and past. We can all do our bit to stop it.

John Howard refusing to apologise to the stolen generation was block headed, and later proved the adage that pride goes before a fall by losing his own seat in parliament. At least he had the guts to stare down the gun lobby.

mick

p.s. Bit of a rave, I know...

A mate of mine had exactly the same problem, so he went out and purchased personalized number plates.

If we change the date, it will still be be called 'Australia Day', so that will still generate the same emotions.
On the new 'date' there will still be demonstrations as the concept of the 'Day' will still provide negative connotations to those who wish to view it in a negative way.
Demonstrations are a positive focus for those feeling hard done, by so long may they continue.
For those who don't wish to demonstrate and just have a pleasant family day out, long may that continue as well.
Greg

Greg, I dont think it is so much what the day is called, I think it is more the significance of the date selected that makes it difficult for some people to accept.

I had vowed to stay silent, but I will try to explain.

There are certain minority groups that desire to enact Sharia Law. If the group desires to practice Sharia Law, so be it. However they can not, but will try, to force Sharia Law on everyone. We already have a group forcing their interpretation of law upon the entire country. It is part of the reason that we have Trump. There are many minority groups that believe that their beliefs and life style are the only "correct" ones, therefore everyone must follow their beliefs and life style.

As a way of trying to explain in a more practical way:
Before, during and for a bit of time after WWII, there was the ARRL. (American Radio Relay League) Better known as 'Ham Radio Operators'. Before decent long distant communication services were available, these radio operators could get a message across the country in a day or two. When the message reached the destination, the Ham Radio Operator would call the recipient and deliver the message. The messages were like, "Alice had the baby, 7 pounds and 9 ounces, date and time". These messages were sent using CW (Continuous Wave) and in Morse Code. There were networks that sprung up every evening after dark when the skip made long distance communications possible. Most of the members of the network were capable of sending 8 or 10 words per minute. Along came the 'Expert' group of Ham operators. They were capable of 15 to 20 words per minute. All well and good except that nobody could understand their communications because they were too fast. A friend explained that they were too fast and completely disrupted the network. If the 'Expert' group would slow down, they could fit into the group.

Other than that I don't know how to explain it.

Oh, one other thing. I have been called a lot to things in my life. The worst I have ever endured was being told that I should be a Pol. :):D

my 2 bobs worth since I started this.

I am convinced we wouldnt have this problem without social (?) media, however we have and it wont go away.

Therefore the screamers of anything can scream and yell on social media and get heard, while we the silent majority (usually by a long way) remain silent, thinking if I speak out an opposing view to them, what if they attack me and even worse they my know me. and so social medias voice of race relations, gender bender, religious conviction, etc etc gets all the attention and because TV and radio news always go for negative thats where it gets attention.

Many years ago I heard a federal pollie say the following, If you as citizens just bothered to write me and tell me your thoughts, then I would listen, if enough of you did that i would vote in your favour, because majority speaks.

Tony, you obviously consider yourself as one of the 'silent majority'? I find it laughable that you consider that the 'silent majority' has a consistent view that accords with your own. If you don't get what I'm trying to say you'll never get it, consequently you won't get any further comment out of me. :D