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seriously I cannot understand all this hoo haa about him being away.
Ive heard a few CFS guys getting quite ****ty when the knobs arrive at a disaster,
'just F off and let us get on with our job'....
'we are wasting time with you ass holes farting around'
are not uncommon,
if my house was in line of a fire, Id want the team doing their job not some dickhead pollie wanting media attention.
Sure Scotty is allowed a little privacy to go on holidays
I think some want him to come home and stop the global warming so the fires go out :p
But yes I agree he is of no benefit to the job at hand, it could be construed as uncaring by some but no doubt it would of been planned well ahead to fit in with his schedule of commitments
Nothing to do with the fires it is just a opportunity to get some "look at me" press time
Getting your face on TV works...up to a point. It almost worked for Bill Shorten. I still remember when his face was plastered all over the news during the Beaconsfield mine disaster. Talk about capitalising on tragedy! Lucky I am not the only one that remembers that Bill is in it for Bill.
Waffling and wind-sniffing, the hollowness of Bill Shorten
Bill Shorten most unpopular Labor leader in more than 30 years | The Canberra Times
There are people in society full of hate and looking for someone/something to aim it at. Scomo is a large target.
Nothing to do with reality, nothing to do with the perception of the majority. Everything to do with the noisy few, pretty much like everything in the media these days...
So here's my take.
This is all about face, and about leadership.
This is not about someone being a part of a situation to directly help, or to directly add value to the front line troops.
It's disrespectful to go on leave and bugger off without telling anyone. His claims about it being no different to any other time seem hollow - I expect the press at least to be able to confirm that the deputy PM is the stand-in if that's the case, and that's just wrong that it went round and round without being confirmed by anyone. The magnitude of the fire situation should have also been a red flag - his team should have been thinking is this a situation where he should be around, for better or worse, to bring positive PR opportunities to the fore.
He should have owned up to *everything*. He should have been very clear about the things they learnt (instead of avoiding the question).
But the fact that he then goes to press events with others and stands in the background and grins? Wow. If that's not a sign he's disjointed from reality, or can't show emotions, then I don't know what it is. It just adds to the disrespect he portrays.
I'm the first to admit that I'm not "the common man", being a higher educated, well paid white collar worker from the city, but I can't see how anything he has done since taking the top job would win favour with anyone, let alone the average family.
Please explain the difference between a person at the end of a phone in either Hawaii or Canberra?
he was on leave. Not the leader - there was a stand in (that nobody knew who it was - and nobody still knows who he actually is?!?!? McCormack has no presence)
If he said "I was still at the reigns, while having beers with those other Aussie tourists at the beach" then does that make it better?
But this is about face - and to be the face, you need to be where the camera crews are, and that's at the front line. It's not about being there to hold a hose and see the flame wall. It's about being there to say they're going to do something about the situation, to offer support and condolences in person.
I detest Morrison for a whole lot of reasons, but I can't see that there's anything wrong with him having a short, pre-arranged holiday with his family during the fires. It's not as if he could do anything useful, and as far away as possible from the people doing the real work is probably the best place for him.
totally agree there. But a pre-arranged holiday isn't a surprise to the nation, and it's not a surprise to the press. This one however seems to almost be like he slinked out of town hoping nobody would see him leave and nobody would ask for him while away, and he'd slink back to town and nobody would be the wiser. Be open and honest and transparent. And sure, you've still got to be on the first plane back when lives are lost like they were, but that's the consequence of being in the top jobQuote:
Originally Posted by AlexS
Yep. Most years there's a brief announcement that the PM is going on leave to wherever, and the deputy PM will be acting PM. The way this was handled, with denials from his office, firstly that he was on leave and then that he was in Hawaii, made it look far worse than it was.
Yes I agree that it is strange that it was done on the sly, I am sure there was nothing sinister going on but it is a bad PR experience that probably didn’t need to be that wayQuote:
Originally Posted by AlexS
Interesting that first response of his office was to lie about it. Made not a good look much worse. And it's not as if it wasn't going to get out eventually.
"In politics, nothing happens by accident, if it happens you can bet it was planned that way
Franklin D. Roosevelt
On Saturday we had 70 acres of our 80 acre lot burnt out. While fighting for the house, my wife said, "Look behind you!" My woodwork shed was next to go but I couldn't leave the house unattended so just resigned myself the the impending loss. Next thing, blue and red flashing lights appear in the drive way. They spot the problem and head straight for the shed. I am bloody thankful it was a truck load of firies rather than our blathering prime minister that showed up in the nick of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexS
People posting here have very very short memories...
Christmas 74, Gough Whitlam was castigated for buggering off to Europe (the museums in Paris if I recall) and not returning to deal with the aftermath of Cyclone Tracey.
Lance Banard carried the can while Darwin was evacuated.
"The great man" should have caught the first flight back but instead delayed some days before grudgingly deciding to return.
More recently, pollies have learnt from Gough and have been a lot better behaved -- at least when it comes to appearing to care -- but
Christine Nixon (Vic Police Commissioner) was given heaps (by ScoMo if I recall correctly) for going to dinner while Victoria burned -- which I thought a little unfair as she really only needed to have her mobile with her and to stay off the grog.
You may not recall but ScoMo made a huge song and dance earlier in the year when there was major flooding in north Queensland -- calling out the Army to assist -- and in that instance at least appearing to care
and in his response to the drought nary a photo-op is been missed.
But in response to the major blazes that have devastated NSW and Queensland since at least early November -- ScoMo's attitude seems to be that the fires are just "business as usual". Allowing ScoMo to justify buggering off to Hawaii with the family.
I don't think any reasonable person expects ScoMo to do a Tony Abbot and run into the scrub with a fire hose, but at the very least he could be seen to be caring while staying out of the way. Mum and the kids could even have stayed in Hawaii.
This business that he's back because of the two fireries killed at Buxton is just garbage.
ian, Very well said
Context matters. He criticised Nixon, then did the same thing himself.
YouTube
I saw the footage of ScoMo and Gladys at fire HQ having operations explained to them. I'm sure they weren't asked there when serious work was afoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
IMO, leaders should be out there listening to the victims and their needs. And to the volunteers on the fire ground who need better masks and have to crowd fund for them. I don't belong to the local brigade for kicks or enjoyment. It's much more fun to sit on my bum and watch the cricket or work in the shed.
I wondered why you'd fly to Hawaii to sit on the beach when you live at Cronulla.
mick
I don’t particularly like Scott Morrison but he goes away on holidays and everyone’s up in arms because he’s not here comforting people and liaisoning with the firies, so he comes back and everyone’s up in arms because he’s getting in the way and is only there for a photo shoot.
The only surprise to me was that someone whose entire career has been built on marketing, spin, and "optics" could so fundamentally misjudge the mood of the country. In practical terms he's as useful as a chocolate teapot, but I'd at least expect him to be on top of his PR....
A government elected on a promise of doing nothing about anything was always going to be fine until something like this happened.:((
now you're disparaging the usefulness of chocolate tea pots. At least you can pour cold water into a chocolate tea pot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Brush
Only a couple of days ago it was reported that ScoMo has an honours degree in science. It didn't reveal in what discipline, however it does mean that if anyone can dispel the belief theory about climate change and underscore the scientific facts known since Arrhenius in 1896, it should be our PM.
Google Arrhenius and climate change if you're interested. The only thing new about it is the unexpected speed of the trend.
Some leaders know what to do and others don't. This bloke has more clout than anyone to throw money and resources where they're needed. He deserves to be brought into line in the same way as he has done to others.
mick
I have just finished reading our illustrious prime minister's announcement that "public service employees will be paid for their time on emergency services duties." Meanwhile the self employed can take a flying leap. Is this man joking?! I am sure the chaps that rolled up to my joint on Saturday night were not public servants or bank johnnys. It took 5 seconds to tell them what was needed and they were fully operational within a minute. If it wasn't for their efficiency my insurance company would be looking at a bill of well over $100,000. And that would just be for one shed. There are another two close by insured for the same amount. The fourth shed was lost before they got there but it was old and used for non valuables, so the loss was of small concern. If it were not for those firies we would probably have lost all the sheds as they were all within the burnt area. My wife, daughter and self had our hands full protecting the house and couldnt spare any time on the sheds. After the boys had saved the sheds they came straight back to the house to help us and set up between the house and the fire front, along with another truck, to face a wall of flames well over 20m high. Thank you Pearl Beach RFS. You said you came down to "see if you could be of assistance." Well take it from me, you achieved your goal.
Rustunail, Im pleased the firies were able to save three of your sheds and your house. It must have been a huge relief when you saw that the truck was crewed by firies and not Scott Morrison and a couple of other politicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by rustynail
As to Scomo authorizing firies who work for the Government to continue drawing their pay while deployed with the RFS but not the others - I agree it is not enough. But when you think about it, that's about all he can do in that regard as a snap decision. He cannot very well order private enterprise to pay their workers while on fire duty as they rely on the revenue their workers generate at work to pay their wages. Big business may be able to handlethat but small business certainly cannot.
In order to work out some sort of plan to pay the employees of private enterprise a system would have to be put in place, similar to how employers are compensated for employees in the Defence Force Reserves. Let's hope that if something good comes out of this terrible fire season it is that procedures like that are put in place.
I hope that there is a way to fund the volunteers.
I agree that the (knee jerk) reaction of an additional 4 weeks leave for deployment in emergency responses for federal employees is appropriate and is a great step in the right direction. I saw on at least one social media post that ANZ Bank have matched that. So again, that's awesome if that happens elsewhere as well, but it'd be great if that could be dealt with in a wider way.
I have an old school friend who has been to so many deployments this year it's not funny. He's not self employed, but the place he works for has been absolutely fantastic letting him take time and go. I can only imagine the impact this would have on the bottom line, having a long term productive employee missing for what is now adding up to almost a couple of months unplanned - even with replacing staff with casuals, where that makes sense, would be hugely impactful. Everything we can do to help that, we should.
NSW Govt closed a number of TAFE colleges that would or could be bush fire affected, telling all staff (teachers, admin, support staff etc. etc) to stay away. Some colleges were closed for 4 days.
Then an email came around reminding everyone affected by the closures to fill in a leave form as the time off would be coming out of their leave entitlements.
I am not a fan and pretty disappointed with his announcement.Quote:
Originally Posted by poundy
It is all fine for him to do it for public servants and then say I hope other businesses follow suite, sure you will get some of the big corporates jumping on board as it is a great marketing/ publicity stunt but the reality is that the majority of the volunteer workforce would be self employed or working in smaller businesses that do not have the financial ability to do so.
The gubberment should set up a remuneration payment to assist all the volunteers.
In Canada there are no volunteers, the firefighters are all paid professionals
Maybe the best compromise is to set a limit on the number of "free" days that volunteers should be expected to contribute, this being a number of at least 10-15 days. Beyond that, ALL of them are compensated, whether employed full time, self-employed, or government employed? That helps to preserve the traditional "volunteer" ethos, while also ensuring that nobody is massively out of pocket through volunteering.
However you look at it, the current arrangements are clearly not sustainable. Since we can no longer rely on large (e.g. air) assets being moved around between countries with different fire seasons, perhaps some of the $$$ being frittered away on defence project cost overruns would be better spent elsewhere?
The solution to all these problems could lie with a VIABLE opposition party, but just like the UK we don't appear to have one..... :((
Wow. So close and I'll bet so worrying.Quote:
Originally Posted by rustynail
A week ago we were listening to news broadcasts about your fires, while being rained on here. Would have happily sent those clouds back across the Tasman.
Best wishes to all those affected.
And Merry Christmas to all.
Cheers, Vann.
Hi,
Why should the current crop of pollies cop the blame? Bush fires are so common that we have a "bush fire season", this should have been sorted a century or two ago, that makes along line of contenders to share the blame.
When I came here I was shocked to learn that something so serious relied so heavily on volunteers.
Regards
Rustynail, for your workspace, I'd bet the stress-sweat being thrown from your own body would have been enough to put out that fire. What an insideous choice. I'm very glad you were saved. The firies are real heros. True bloody heros.
Fire is the very worst disaster.
My brother is some form of honcho for National Sparks and Wildfire Service as a team leader/ranger (not exactly sure of title). He's 48 and has always been the thin one of the family, but with the 10 day on/off roster they are having to go elsewhere and fight these monsters... he is all skin and bones. Haggard, drawn and utterly exhausted.
On time off, if there is a bloody great bushfire that requires 14 days off the workforce, you'd think things are PRETTY FECKNG BAD to necessitate two weeks to put it out.... It seems that its within EVERYONE'S interests to galvanise the entire community to deal with the situation. If there is nothing left once the flames are gone, there isn't much business to be done.... 3 days off... hmmm, just a little bit of a bother, but if you NEED 3 WEEKS then well, its not so good, is it?
As for our PM, probably best he stays away. Seems that things run better without him being around anyway. Being out of the country might have been a blessing.
Has anyone considered that his minders and handlers actually SENT him away? He strikes me as a dope. Thick as 20 planks and always terribly confused when normal people are talking. To have him appear at a time of national crisis may in fact have been a disaster in itself!
...
I can't stand the clowns we have in office right now. I've given up on the Australian people to produce true leaders, people with True Honesty and true credibility. Duds. All duds.
Our local RFS is made up of 75% self employed people. Many of them have been away from their work for over 2 months. No business is going to fair well with that sort of neglect, particularly at this time of year and particularly after such a catastrophic event. Many of our local business have been completely wiped out, so those volunteers who owned them have not only sacrificed their time, they have also lost any way of compensating themselves. If that's fair I'll eat my hat.
this seems an appropriate time to share thisQuote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
No, Scott Morrison, my husband does NOT want to be fighting fires this summer! – SMARTER THAN CROWS
Thanks for posting that Ian - very sobering indeed. The disconnect between politics and the real world just keeps growing :((
agree that the current situation is not sustainable ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Brush
however, the "standard" volunteer arrangement of one night per week, one weekend per month and 2 weeks (= half your annual leave entitlement) per year is clearly inadequate in the current situation. Bumping up the leave allowance does nothing to compensate those employed by small business or the self employed. And "compensating" the self employed also does nothing to help. If you're self employed there's only you bringing in any income.
I believe that at its core the problem really relates to the massive downsizing and contracting out of government employment. No longer do you have an employed workforce able to be directed to assist in an emergency. In part the "volunteers" that used to be able to be provided from their secure government employment have been replaced by "independent contractors". There is no longer a pool of readily available volunteers.
I suspect that the situation can only be stabilised by requiring all contractors working on government work to allow all their sub-contractors and sub-sub-sub-contractors to provide their people time off to volunteer.
Maybe public servants, being servants OF the public and taking taxes OFF the public, should do what they are told to do?
If the government asks them to put out fires, off they go!
Bugger extra compensation, its like being in the military, even if you maintain typewriters or staple requisition forms for paperclips....there may/will be time a rifle is put in your hands. Its part of the gig.
Quite so. Without a good opposition, you won't have a good government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Brush
Re payment for the volunteers, I'm not sure what the solution is. Most people would like them to at least be compensated for any lost income and expenses. Some volunteers are proud of the fact that they are performing a community service and are reluctant to accept payment, but for some there is a significant financial cost. Perhaps Mr Brush's post #29 is a good starting point.
Even the military person licking stamps has had some military training. How much fire fighting training have the public servants had?Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel