Censorship on this Forum

This may be seen as presumptious and ungrateful, having only been a member for a short time and having taken far more than contributed, but I ask myself this each time I'm logged on.

The issue I wish to raise is this. Why do words that are used everywhere in our modern society get censored on this board? I can understand f$$$ and c$$$ as some people may continue to find this offensive. Other commonly used 'obscenities' such as ****, **** etc may be read each day in the national papers, heard on TV and even uttered by a Prince of the Realm (I'm connecting the logic by tying this to the concept of Queen's English, not out of respect for the kid or institution)

We adults, on an adult 'special interest' forum must behave with childish coyness, inputting $$ or ** or mis-spelling these common, useful and expressive words. This puerile silliness in no ways disguises what word we mean, not for an instant. Rather it draws attention to it.

Certainly, you will inevitably get some illiterate moron who will write $$$ three times in each sentence. Censor that moron, by all means. Not for using naughty words but for laziness and butchery of the most complex, expressive, powerful and beautiful language.

We're not little children, very few kids seem to venture here (apart from when they wish their homework or projects done for them). Anyway, try listening to them in any school playground.

I guess I just hate the dishonesty. We all know what the word is, most of us regularly use it without compunction, it just can't appear in text???

Why do the sponsors of this forum practice a censorship, that disappeared from general society two or three decades ago?

I leave myself open to attacks by those who would interpret this as a criticism of the forum and sponsors/moderators. I understand and admire their loyalty, but this is not meant to be an attack on anyone, least of all Forum administrators.

It is an enquiry as to why an outdated and moribund practice continues and an invitation to explain the rationale.
If this gets me rusticated and six of the best, thanks for all the help to date.

A good question and I have thought it myself on occasion, however, has an anecdote that explains it and I won't steal it from him. Suffice to say that there are quite young children who sometimes get on here and if I heard a shyte or similar come out of my childs mouth I would wash it out.

Dan

Bodgy,

When you mention "Prince of the Realm" & "Queens" english; I hope you weren't casting aspersions that Charlie was one. :D Poor old Als' (ozwinner) alias will end up end up developing a nervous twitch or something.

Ken

I think they have every right to censor as they see fit. It's their forum afterall. I also agree with it. If you want to talk a certain way, then do it but you have to respect the rights of others not to have to see it written. Putting words on a public, open forum is vastly different to saying whatever you like.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you go out into the middle of Bourke St and scream the magic word a few times, aren't you breaking the law? We all must have some formn of censorship or the standards will go down the gurgler.

Ok I will try to answer why we have censorship on this board.

Contrary to popular belief it is not an adults only forum. A lot of children read this forum and as Dan said if his child used some of the language that is censored here it would be a case of mouthwash.

As you say the English language is probably the most descriptive language in the world. It does not need to be embellished with swear words.

Another point that you raise is that it is common on TV or in the press. TV has censorship by allowing certain things at certain times when the younger population is (should be) in bed. Our board is 24 hours a day, seven days a week and 52 weeks of the year, we never close and it is accessable at any time by everyone.

As for the press I have never seen half the words used on this forum in the better quality newspapers.

I think of this board as like being an employee who is meeting the bosses wife or husband for the first time and the manner in which you would talk to them. I know that there are some who would probably tell a rude joke but in the main I think everyone has manners and act accordingly.

The board is also multi-national, mult-racial, mult-religous and mult-cultural and what does not offend you could well be a total insult to someone else so I try to keep it neutral but allow the Aussie traits to come through. This board is a little more liberal than most others in the content and if some of this stuff was posted on an overseas board you would probably end up in court.

That is the reason for the censorship. Like it or lump it I shall continue to moderate it as I think it should be moderated for the benefit of all who view it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by

The board is also multi-national, mult-racial, mult-religous and mult-cultural

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You left out multi-intelligental. We cover a broad range in here :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by , well almost

The board is also multi-national, mult-racial, mult-religous multi personalitied and mult-cultural

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and that's just me. :D

Whip me, beat me, censor me, ya can't get rid of me that easy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gumby

You left out multi-intelligental. We cover a broad range in here :D

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They must do, they let you in........

Mhwwhahahahah :D

Al :D

Just as a side point, Ive been visiting this forum.
Yeah I know, Ive been two timeing you lot. :eek:

But I still loves ya all heaps. :o

Anyway, You think this forum is old fashioned?
Go here.
http://www.twoguysgarage.com/forum/

I cant even put in more than one smilie before I get told off.

Al :)

Id just like to say ***** & *****, besides your all ****** and *****. The *** moderators are **********, filthy ******!!!! Your type really make me want to *******, not to mention *******, ****, **** & ************!!!!


:D

Well said Zed. Up to your usual elequent standard.

When Darren and I were talking to Neil at the Sydney show, he mentioned that he was thinking of having , for want of a better term, an "anything goes" forum.

The idea was that it wouldn't be generally accessable. You'd have to request access and that by doing so you'd waive your rights to be offended, so to speak.

Needless to say I thought it was a great idea :D

Is this still a possibility?

Bodgy, I hear what you are saying, but I, for one, like the fact that the language used here has to be up to a certain level, I think this is good.

If one wishes to trash talk, go ahead, head down to your local watering hole and have at it. I'm no prude, but at the same time, do we have to live in a culture where every second word I'd not say in front of my mother?

I have two young daughters, and when some of my single buddies come around it does not take long before I have to say "Watch your mouth" as they are not around kids and feel it is OK to curse like a sailor, I don't.

I personally think less of a man who constantly peppers his conversation with curse or swear words, it shows, at the very least, a lack of imagination.

Cheers!

i sdeopidfo hate censorship. it really ihbhakas asdus ucsuhsdh ski sduiuhsd me. sometimes jhsdjdj asduj aouiiiwqwiiewi m oiiwqqjjcilc oiqioqi and i jjaoasoi jajiaiowqeirj jhsdcis7d kjewnnl, but usually after a little while i jjsiusuisiu nnwqiufwqh kjsansaoiu limwekweqji it:):):):):rolleyes::cool::p;):D:confused::o:eek::(:mad:


sorry i am very emotional right now

Oh godhetypeslikeme specially if i get all excited and forget to push the space bar lol cheers all jules

I used to spend a lot of time in a chatroom that was excellent, and it was unmoderated. Well it was moderated by the members themselves if you know what i mean. after a year or so the undesireables moved in, dug a deep hole and refused to budge. the rooms owner had no choice but to introduce moderation but its nowhere near the room it used to be.

I dont want that to happen to this forum, so and the other moderators - PLEASE KEEP DOING THE WONDERFUL JOB YOU ARE DOINGhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ons/icon12.gif

[QUOTE=]Ok I will try to answer why we have censorship on this board.


As you say the English language is probably the most descriptive language in the world. It does not need to be embellished with swear words.


I agree , It is nice to have a clean board . Maybe sometimes , in our opinion , it is over board , I remember my very first post about the death of Les Miller I said I was a sh**hou** woodworker at school and was surprised this was censored , I mean really , kids use much worse language but also swearing is just really a lazy way of saying something . It would have been just as clear for me to say I was useless at woodwork at school .

I like the idea of a "clean " forum . There is no need for rude words and I'm not Christian or anything . I just agree there is no need for it and there is nothing worse than hearing foul language all the time .

Keep up the good work moderaters and great forum .

Congrats.
Rick.

I was not going to reply, but I thought "what the hay???". I can swear like anyone else, using descriptive noun and adjectives to descibe various ideas. One of the challanges of this forum is, when you wish to describe an idea/item/person, where in private conversation the words may start with F's, S's, W's or maybe a C.

Here you have to be a bit more thoughtful . . . If you brought an item that did not function in the matter prescribed, instead of calling it "a piece of S***"", you have to think about what you are about to say, how to say it and how to get the message thru.

So, Bodgy, think as the forum as a character building device, to expand your horizons and to be able to curse, without getting into trouble with the missus!

who said that swearing means you dont have imagination ? I defy you!!! I agree extranious expletives are redundant and belong in a pub or the gutter but I for one think that swearing does not mean you got no imagination. Im good at swearing, I am also eloquent and well spoken, please peruse past posts all over this site - I am hopeful (in a head wobbling kind of way) you'll find good examples of both. I can insult you just as well without swearing as I can with!!!

IMNSHO the forum is fine as it is, if they have a sweary section - im there!

think about this : how many GOOD jokes do you know that dont swear or have a victim ? not many...

Get ******!! :-)

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Originally Posted by Pat

I was not going to reply, but I thought "what the hay???". I can swear like anyone else, using descriptive noun and adjectives to descibe various ideas. One of the challanges of this forum is, when you wish to describe an idea/item/person, where in private conversation the words may start with F's, S's, W's or maybe a C.

Here you have to be a bit more thoughtful . . . If you brought an item that did not function in the matter prescribed, instead of calling it "a piece of S***"", you have to think about what you are about to say, how to say it and how to get the message thru.

So, Bodgy, think as the forum as a character building device, to expand your horizons and to be able to curse, without getting into trouble with the missus!

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G'Day All,
I must agree, keep up the good work, it is a pleasure to read this forum, I try to think about what I write, then re-read before I post and edit if I miss anything to the best of my education!:o ...I've witnessed what happens here if you make a spelling mistake, so there is no way I am about to put my head on the block and swear!:eek: ...Plus we don't need it!..:)
savage.:D

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As for the press I have never seen half the words used on this forum in the better quality newspapers.

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A search of The Age online (www.theage.com.au) has
The S word appearing in 552 times.
The F word appearing 26 times.
The W word appears 68 times.
The C word does not appear.

I'm not saying that these should be allowed but they do appear in Melbourne's broadsheet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grunt

A search of The Age online (www.theage.com.au) has
The S word appearing in 552 times.
The F word appearing 26 times.
The W word appears 68 times.
The C word does not appear.

I'm not saying that these should be allowed but they do appear in Melbourne's broadsheet.

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No idea what your talking about Grunt
Please be clear and finish your sentences . I am at a loss .
What do you mean by " the S word ", "the F word " , "The W word " and "The C word " .
Looking forward to your quickest reply .
Richard

I just raised the point in another thread in the forum that apparrently you cnat say $H!T

in text but its quite ok to have a graphic with the words

$H!Thot waxtix

cos this is one of the owner's products. now at risk of castigation by the owner, a swarm of moderators, and the scorn of my fellow forum members, surely if this word is a part of the name of one of the owners products, its an acceptable word on the forum, or am i missing something here?

Hadn't intended to write anything until more posts were in, but I can't help but pass one comment.

Savage, who comes down firmly on the 'conservative' side has, as his Avatar, a picture of Billy Connelly. Has anyone ever been to a Billy Connelly show??

A few inconsistencies emerge, gentlemen.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodgy

Hadn't intended to write anything until more posts were in, but I can't help but pass one comment.

Savage, who comes down firmly on the 'conservative' side has, as his Avatar, a picture of Billy Connelly. Has anyone ever been to a Billy Connelly show??

A few inconsistencies emerge, gentlemen.....

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Yes you are right!..But those that go to see Billy, do so expecting to be personally bombarded with all nature of colourful words, don't they?...:) You should read "Billy" by Pamela Stephenson, Billy was an abused child in everyway you could imagine and by nearly every adult in his very early life. I like him and I listen to him, because I choose to, and I know what I am to expect, but here there are ladies and children present and I choose to treat them with the respect due to them, it was the way I was brought up. What I personally choose for entertainment is up to me, am not one to be offended easily!..:p
savage.:D

But whats censored on this forum is not just single words is it .... whole sentences of stuff is wiped clean as well. Happened to me a few times.

Must be tricky for the moderators to work out what should be erased and what should be left.

I noticed something that was erased from my post recently. I don't think it was that bad. It was in that 'bloody magpie' post.

I asked the question........ ;)

A seasonal thing. ..... I've heard this story from a couple of people. Sounds outragious, so I really wanted to know if that was true......YET..... someone erased that question entirely and nobody saw it. .... Its not that bad a question is it. ??? :confused:

Now that reminds me, we should definitely censor too many ........ 's and ,,,,,, 's :rolleyes:

Quote:

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No idea what your talking about Grunt
Please be clear and finish your sentences . I am at a loss .
What do you mean by " the S word ", "the F word " , "The W word " and "The C word " .
Looking forward to your quickest reply .
Richard

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Sorry,

The S Word = ****
The F word = ****
The C word = ****
The W word = ******

Despite what at least one forum member has alleged, I am not a prude. However, if the forum were not moderated, I think it would probably rapidly degenerate into a place where members were at one anothers' throats over issues nothing to do with woodworking. We have seen how worked up people can get over matters like spelling, politics, religion, the monarchy, as well as sex and gender. All of these issues are important and need to be discussed, but not here in this forum, which is run, out of the goodness of their hearts -I can't believe there is any profit in it - by the forum owners. I believe the moderators are doing a great job, despite having been censored myself on the odd occasion. If people want to indulge in swearing, or discussion on any of the topics that are censored here, there are numerous places where they can do so. The judicious moderation of this forum keeps its focus where it should be, on woodworking.

Rocker

I also agree that it should be moderated.
(On Soapbox)
I am no prude and far from one that's for sure but just because you can hear 'some kids' using profane or for want a better term 'colourful' language doesn't mean all of them do and that to me alone is not a good enough excuse to allow it as open slather on the forum, let alone the ladies and other respectable people that grace these pages.
I treat my posts the same as I would when I go out in public - I don't openly swear at/to people I don't know, shop assistants etc (although I would like to sometimes :):):)) nor at other members of the public (maybe under my breath but not out loudly and openly).
Would you tolerate your kids and family members, guests etc using 'colourful' language around your house. Some would I know but most not. I know I sure don't and won't tolerate it.
Keep it as it is - does no harm and keeps some of the 'heavy debates' on a more respectable level.
(Off soapboax)

I am definately not a prude not a dab hand with a pen and my use of the proper english is not what it should be but that is my fault for not attending school as long as I should have, catch me in the shed when something goes wrong or when the stock wont do what their supposed to and I can beat any bullocky in descriptive language. When ladies or children are around you wont hear any of this and that's the way I think it should be.

One only has to stand outside a shopping center or school and listen to the kids (particularly the girls) to hear what a downslide our society is taking, I drive a school bus and the kids now know don't use that language on the bus also if they put a tape or CD on with that sort of language in it I'll throw it out the window and not one kid complains, if a new kid gets on the others bring him/her into line very quickly.

We constantly hear complaints about kids leaving school unable to read, write, spell and their maths leaves alot to be desired (Current Affair just recently), but their langauge is very colourful. I think if schools spent more time on the three R's, less on social issues and brought back censorship our future generation will be far better off. I have listened to a teacher tell a grade 9 student to shut the f--- up and he's a f---ing idiot, what a teacher what hope our kids.

OK give me as flogging but thats my rant and rave keep up the censoring as it is now.

Cheers Arch.

Arch,,,,,I think you've got a strong point.

Something very wrong in young kids swearing to that extent. Quite vulgar really.

I was working in the shed one day and this young kid pulls up on his bike....maybe 7 years old..... screams out to his mates, right in front of me, ' Hey, ya f*** head !! , wait up ! ,,,,,don't you want a smoke !! ' ....looks around at me with this defiant look on his face, to see my reaction, with a fag dangling out of his mouth.......Then took off.

7 years old. :rolleyes: ....... I swear on occation, but usually only when I have an accident, like dropping a hammer on my foot,,,,,,,but growing up, I was never like that...very few kids were like that. Now they seem to be everywhere. I really didn't start feel comfortable swearing until I was 18, and even then only with my mates.

Fellow woodies,

Without the censorship or a form of control on this forum it would be such that most would not bother clicking on to have a look and maybe add a comment or an idea or two. Its just as easy to type in something acceptable to everyone as it is to carry with a load of #%@T. This particular forum it is one of the best around, and thats not just happened it has been nurtured together with commonsense approach and a modicum of censorship by moderators.

My opinion is leave the $#%@ out of it and lets all enjoy what has been provided for our use and education if you like. There is not one who would frequent this forum who did not learn somthing or a new approach to a problem from the postings contained here. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D D

I do not believe we should hide behind a keyboard in order to cut the legs of some other poor bas$@#d who may have got it wrong. Most people swear or get riled up at some time but this is not the place to air or demonstrate this, whats the point in typing in something which gives that impression ? That is my few pennys worth.

Regards Mike. :D

<TABLE cellSpacing=7 cellPadding=0 width=310 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=2><TR><TD>http://www.cusscontrol.com/cimages/spcrwht.gif</TD><TD align=top>Swearing Imposes a Personal Penalty
It gives a bad impression
It makes you unpleasant to be with
It endangers your relationships
It's a tool for whiners and complainers
It reduces respect people have for you
It shows you don't have control
It's a sign of a bad attitude
It discloses a lack of character
It's immature
It reflects ignorance
It sets a bad example

Swearing is Bad for Society
It contributes to the decline of civility
It represents the dumbing down of Australia
It offends more people than you think
It makes others uncomfortable
It is disrespectful of others
It turns discussions into arguments
It can be a sign of hostility
It can lead to violence

Swearing corrupts the English language
It's abrasive, lazy language
It doesn't communicate clearly
It neglects more meaningful words
It lacks imagination
It has lost its effectiveness

:)




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

In the ol'days woodworkers were considered gentlemen... gentlemen dont swear in front of women and children!
Im not against the use of swear words and use them myself regularly in everyday life, there is a place and time that is quite OK for this to happen... this forum is not one of them.
Its simple really its called manners and respect, some people find it hard to grasp some dont... do you still open the gate for SWMBO?

I swore at a female social worker once, she told me I shouldn't swear in front of a lady, my response was that I don't and I didn't.
As for Neils Wax stix, they are thots made from shi, which is part of his secret process.

I wrote this some time ago and put it into cold storage. I think it is probably an apt time to bring it out, dust it off, and post it on this forum. :p
----------------------------------

I was browsing through various topics which have come up from time to time in the forums (should that be fora?) on this BB, and I came across the one on swearing and the English language etc.
This topic, opened a ‘whole new Pandora’s box of worms’ to quote a well known radio personality.
On TV swearing is beeped out before 8-30pm. Yet to any half intelligent being over the age of about six years it is perfectly obvious what the character said. After 8-30pm when all the impressionable young things have gone to bed, (as if!) anything goes. If you doubt the swearing ability of the younger generation just travel on public transport in Melbourne at school finishing time and listen to the language, guaranteed to shock any one. You may even learn some new words.
‘Bugger’ has become an accepted, even comical word, mainly through the recent efforts of the advertisers of Toyota products. The derivation of ‘bugger’ is as bad, if not worse than any other profanity. On the radio ‘bulltish’ and ‘carp’ are regularly used as replacements. In the print medium words usually appear with only the first and last letters, dashes taking the place of the missing letters e.g. s- - t or f - - k. As if anyone with half a brain could not fill in the empty spaces!
Many of these ‘swear words’ are derived from old Anglo-Saxon language and were in common usage down through the ages. Just read the Bible or Chaucer, and later Shakespeare.
The same double standard seems to be creeping onto this BB. Some time ago, I posted ‘Wooden tit’on the joke forum. A couple of days later I noticed that it had been censored and now read ’Wooden’t’ it. (Actually, I think the second one is better!)
At the same time our Kiwi friends are being slandered time and again in another forum, by the old ‘sheep’ jokes in a way which, in my humble opinion is way over the top. As for the posts on this board about the poor old Americans, the less said the better. There are plenty of other examples of intolerance, bigotry, and insensitivity.
I claim to have a sense of humour as good as the next man’s, and would be the first to agree that most of us are only trying to be funny. But ladies and gentlemen, enough is enough.
However I guess that in the final analysis this is Neil’s BB and he and his moderators, also have varied opinions, and as they have the last word can do with it what they like!
As I can already feel the righteous indignation that this post will engender, I apologise in advance to any one who feels offended. This is not a personal attack on any one in particular but rather a cry of anguish and criticism directed at the times we live in! So please accept it in the spirit in which it was meant. I know, I’m beginning to sound like my father and his father before him. But I really do wonder if we are rushing headlong down the slippery slope to oblivion.
There, I feel a lot better now! :D

Again, I couldn't let this one go by.

Many of you have mentioned 'protecting' ladies from bad language. Isn't that presumptious and infers that the 'little lady' needs your protection and in some way is inferior? Try telling that to most women, particluarly those under 40! You'd come away bleeding.

Oh dear, swearing is a sign of ignorance, lack of imagination, etc.
These sorts of statements annoy me, because they are wrong. Simply chucking around words commonly accepted as swear words does indeed show a lack of imagination and a lack of care for the written or spoken word, a lack of care for what you are expressing. That can be through ignorance and sometimes is.

However, were you aware that most of our swear words were in common useage in times past, but were ostracised by the church or political leaders trying to exert control by destroying the old language? (sound familiar? we did the same to the aboriginees). The reason most of our swear words originate from the anglo saxon is because the normans, after their conquest of England, attempted to reinforce their control by destroying the old language. Interesting eh?

But despite the history of censorship (and it always comes down to trying to control the expression of someone else), at the benign level it is employed on this forum, it can be useful. As employed here, the 'censorship' (a poor term used only because it is the one that has been employed through this thread) demands that posters on this forum show a bit of thought about what they write. No, not finding fancy ways around the swear filter, but by expressing what they mean in colourful and powerful ways without resorting to swear words. On the other hand, it is still possible to swear but to do so intelligently and for emphasis.

A fluent swearer is not someone who can offend for five minutes without repeating himself ... or just by constantly repeating two or three favourites. A fluent swearer is someone who understands the empahasis a well placed profanity can add to a phrase and uses it for that purpose alone - to add a particular emphasis. When words are used correctly, they can not be simply replaced with something else - this is why you will find swear words in my writing, but not many. Words NEVER work in isolation - there are ties and energy flows that tie every word to its neighbours, sentences to theirs, paragraphs to theirs. In a well written piece of prose, changing one word can result in changing up to an entire page - believe me, I've sweated blood doing just that.

The true test of swearing, like all other tests of writing and the spoken word, is invisibility. You should not be able to 'see' the word - it should not stand out from the rest. Its effect should be there, because if that effect is not, the word is not needed and should be deleted. However, you should not be aware of the word itself.

Much of the swearing that occurs, and nearly all of it by young people and by prolific swearers, fails the above test and is just poor use of language. However, were you to look at the use of adverbs, you will find greater abuse. Were you to look at the use of cliches, you would find greater abuse. And so on, apart from a few individuals who really need to have their vocal chords paralysed for a period.

mate, you are doing a good job and while I have, on occasion, felt the blade your axe, you've invariably been right. I love the freedom in this forum and wouldn't like to see it lost because because some individuals abused it with resulting restrictions. I can understand the frustration of being moderated when you didn't think you needed it, but we've got a big paddock to play in here - let's just accept the fences that are there and live within them. I certainly plan to.

Cheers
Richard

Thankyou Richard, one of the reasons I find Eddie Murphy's movies a bit hard to swallow, the constant use of certain words I find objectionable.
However, another Harrison Ford series of adventure movies used one word in one movie, S**t, and I thought it was appropriate in the scene in question.
Whichs shows that entertainment can be provided without obscenities.
And I might add, being pure myself, has never ever had to use his axe :p