have you heard of one side veneering?

I was reading in a veneering book from the 1940's, (author: C. Hayward) that a panel can be veneered on one side only: "It is safe to say that few men could successfully veneer a panel, say 1/2 inch or less in thickness, on one side only, without its pulling hollow on dry out. but.. a very skilled craftsmen can."

In fact I have a side board form the 50's - veneered chipboard - and the top has only one side veneered. Flat as!! :2tsup:

My question: does anyone know an "oldie" who can veneer one side without casting the panel?
I would love to learn from him, I think these skills are going to be lost, we just going to read in books about them.:o
So if you know someone who has exceptional veneering background it would be nice to hear from you.
thanks bobkot

I am interested in veneering boards only on one side, too. I have done some studies about it and I think that it is really possible.

Can you tell me the title of book, which you found information about this type of veneering in (I'm thinking about this from 1940 Hayward's)?

Hi Sylwia,
The book's title is Practical veneering, author is Charles H. Hayward, published in 1949 London.
I think it was a text book for apprentice woodworkers. Fantastic book I think.:2tsup:

I can see you live in Warsaw. Are you practicing veneering? marquetry making??
cheers
katbobkat

Thank you very much for answer.

Nowadays I am Ph.D. Student. My work is about asymmetrical veneering (so part of it is veneering only on one-side). I have to say that in our country it wasn't really popular subject in sciences and I have many problems with finding any books about it.

Anyway, I have some contacts with industry and they are really interested in what I'm doing. You know that it can lead to lower prices.

We have done some studies and we are satisfied with our results. We believe that suddenly we will be able to describe technology of "one- side veneering". But we have to change mostly everything about process of standard veneering- paramethers of process and glue.

I have one more question. I would be apreciate, if you answer me. In your first post you wrote that you make veneering on one-side by casting. Can you tell me something about this technology?

Hi Sylvia,

"does anyone know an "oldie" who can veneer one side without casting the panel?"
It must be your English, but I do not know how to veneer one side, I wish though!!! I veneer by hand with the veneer hammer, and the "casting" means; warping, bending, it is not a process, it is the result of poor veneering.
Did I answered your question?

Your studies sounds very exciting. I am on the other scale, custom furniture making/designing/teaching. I am interested to work with veneers, this is why I am looking for an "oldie" expert of old school skills. They know these things, but today hardly heard of one side veneering. It is interesting that the industry "discovers" it again for economic reasons.

Keep me informed - if you do not mind - how you are going, it would be interesting to know the results of your research.

Good luck. :2tsup:
cheers katbobkat

I read somewhere in an old, old book, which is in my workshop at present, that one side veering can be do on solid timber by veering the heart side of the timber. The theory being the natural tenancy of the timber the curl away from the heart when it looses moister evens out the tension and stress created by the veneered side.

On small item I sometime veneer only on one side in Birch Ply but as a rule I tend to use paper backed veneer for these items.

I have been informed and to date found it to be true that Spanish Cedar can and is one of the very few timbers that can be veneered only on one side and remain stable. Have done it a lot on Cigar Humidors to no ill effect.
Not sure how it would go on a much larger project though?

I use Hide glue and vary the strenght according to what i'm doing.



Cheers


Steve

Hi,
I suppose that now I get what is happening. So I can say that our industry has the same problems with veneering on one side.

Anyway, thank you for answers. I have to say that you really helped in some ways. If you want to read, I have some articles about asymmetrical veneering (also about veneering on one-side), so I can send them to you.

Hi Steve,

Can you tell me the title of the book, which are informations about one-side veneering in? I would be really grateful.

Anyway, to this process we use some kind of examined glue. It was produced in Poland by one Company and they don't know where they can use it.

But studies are goimg better and better, so I am full of hope with these topic. Also because I can see that many people on the world are interested in this technology.

Cheers

Sylvia

Hi all,
was reading your coments and must say that since years I am still using traditional way of veneering using pearl glue and some small tools.you will finde some samples in my albym.
cheers,
Chris

Hi Sylvia,

"I have some articles about asymmetrical veneering (also about veneering on one-side), so I can send them to you."

That would be awesome!! :2tsup:I would like to read your articles very much. my email is [email protected]

Thank you
katbobkat

Hi Chris,

"I am still using traditional way of veneering using pearl glue and some small tools."

Thanks for your reply. Do you veneer by hand larger surfaces? Where do you live/work?

cheers katbobkat

Hi Unfortunately I have heard of this and spent a good proportion of my time taking the "smile" out of 18th century card tables I think I got to do about 50 in total. usually the top flap was veneered both sides but the bottom surface was veneered only on one surface and despite being screwed to the carcase quite often had a good cup in it.
In the victorian era there was a fair bit performed and it is fair to say that the Victorian era saw some of the best and worst pieces ever made.

The main problem would be any glue that had water content such as pva and scotch glue but you might get away with using west systems resin glue as this doesn't swell the wood too much.It's much safer to stick to using a balancing veneer though and if using a vacuum bag is ro real hassle anyway.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your reply, I think you know exactly what I am looking for. Not so much a solution how to avoid the cup using different glues, but someone who has the skill with hide glue to veneer one side ..... and hopefully interested to pass it on.
In Melbourne after the second WW quite a lot of Italians settled, and in the 50's they had furniture workshops veneering only one side. Those guys would be old by now, so I am pushing my luck.
But yes, it was a common knowledge/skill once upon a time.
I'll be at the Perth Wood show in early September with the Perth Woodschool, come and visit us. I'll be the "marquetry demo/advertiser".
Your work looks great :2tsup:, but must be hard to make a living coming from England. A bit of a culture shock eh!? :oo:
I came - 20 years ago - as a marquetry maker, and no one knew what is marquetry.
ha ha ha. But I am still into it, so its not that bad.
cheers
Kat

Hi Kat I used quite a lot of scotch/pearl glue but to be honest my workshop was never really warm enough to be ideal that's certainly not a problem here in Perth.
I think it's quite doable to single sided veneer provided the carcase timber is not too thin to start with and is quite rigid initially.
If after veneering the panel it was left clamped to bearers for a considerable time it may be successful but it all comes down to using as little water as possible when using the iron and veneer hammer and having as low a moisture content as possible.
My initial veneering was done with gluefilm as was the marquetry piece in my album but I had problems with this in that it required a very hot iron,around 150c and if you were not carful you would have blisters in the veneer which were sometimes not detected until you sanded it down by which time it was too late.
To be honest It is hard to build up a business over here but I have had some success and intend to continue.It was very tempting to take the easy way out and get a job in a factory making kitchens apparently they call that cabinet making but I can't type in her what I call it !

my initial business foray was based around Nuneaton and over 20 years ago long before the internet which is not exactly a hotbed of arts and culture (except for George Eliot)

I spent a good number of years restoring antiques and learned a lot about how and how not to put furniture together,what people used to do to furniture defies belief,I once had a card table that had all four legs broken off and a 19th century blacksmith had fitted some wrought iron brackets fixed with screws.
It looked bloody awful !

I used to sell these tables in auction and got £ 1000-1500 for them but you can pick them up now for as little as £ 300

"It was very tempting to take the easy way out and get a job in a factory making kitchens apparently they call that cabinet making but I can't type in her what I call it !"

Ha ha ha.
I knew you had the surprise!!! cabinet making eh??? ha ha ha. I worked in a kitchen place, I still laugh about it!

I'll be over in Perth in early September. (Perth Woodschool) I'll teach marquetry making, I approach it a little different to the conventional ways, but I try to learn from the traditional ways as much as possible. (this is the reason for interest in one side veneering) I use pearl glue most of the time, except for large pieces, I just take it to a veneering factory. One flop so far, the Huon Pine popped off like it never seen glue!

I live on the Far South Coast of NSW, not a hub either, but it is a beautiful place. Like rest of Australia.

Would be nice to catch up with you at the show.
regards
Kat

Hi I'm glad someone agrees with me
While I was over here I used a Vacuum press for the first time,it's a great tool to use.

Forget that vinyl coated crap,I have a kitchen back home where it has started to peel away and it looks awful.
Mind you some of the solid timber rubbish over here is just as bad,Sticking a slab of timber with the bark still attached on a stump isn't what I would call cabinet making either and the prices being asked for these is unbeleivable.
Am looking forward to the show and will be submitting entries to the competition

"I'm glad someone agrees with me "
Well .... only if there are no Aussies around! ha ha ha.
I needed too a touch of adjustment to get use to to understand the term: "cabinet maker" and "art", "artist", and I still have belly laugh when I rock up in a gallery with plastic witches in it on display, or slabs of timber with bark on it for coffee table. I feel for you, it is truly a culture shock.
But it will get better!

I have seen the vacuum bag in use, I have seen some good and peeling results as well as cracking veneer. My concern is that the bag does not squeese out the glue, traps it, and liquid cannot be compressed. My understanding of good gluing is: minimum moisture, minimal glue, and as much contact surface as possible with the aim that the two timber becomes one. Trapped glue becomes a third material moving differently between the timbers. For veneering that can be disastrous.
But I am open to see some long lasting projects coming from vacuum bags. In my work I put many hours into a project, I would be cranky if it lifts in 20 years time. Or even 40! I think I wait a little longer for convincing results.
Probably its the technique how to use it. For curved surfaces vacuum bag would be awesome!

"submitting entries to the competition[/QUOTE]" Now that is serious, good luck with it. I think I will spot your work from miles. I bet. hi hi hi.

See you at the show.
Kat

Hi mArk,

I posted my reply, and I just realised that my number one "enemy" in marquetry making/teaching is a little kit made in ENGLAND! It tells you exactly how not to succeed.
So here you are, its not just the Aussies!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katbobkat

Hi Chris,

"I am still using traditional way of veneering using pearl glue and some small tools."

Thanks for your reply. Do you veneer by hand larger surfaces? Where do you live/work?

cheers katbobkat

---

Good Day katbobkat
I do veneer lagre surtace alright,some of them probably you have seen in my album.Moved to Cork,Ireland seven years ago and I still working hire ,working as furniture restorer,cabinet maker,wood carver
...an so on
cherrs

"I do veneer lagre surtace alright,some of them probably you have seen in my album."

Hi Chris,
Yes I have seen your work and they do look impressive. :2tsup:Do you veneer them by hand? Or you have a veneer press?
What is your experience on one side veneering?

You moved from Aussie to Ireland? Or did I get that wrong?
cheers
Kat

"One flop so far, the Huon Pine popped off like it never seen glue! "
Huon Pine contains a lot of oil. Bit like teak and both timbers can be hard to glue.
The oil on the surface of the prevents the glue to penertrate into the pores of the wood.
I once glued teak to a fibreglass deck on a boat with an epoxy glue and just before applying the glue I wiped the wood surface with acetone which removed the oil for a depth enough for the glue to penertrate. Did some sample test before finishing a 30 ft deck.
All my glueing of Huon I've used the same priciple and it works Animal glue expoy what ever.
Normal PVA not so good but better class PVA OK.
This applies to many other timber species which have high oil or tannin content.
Years ago Gluelan Beams made fro WA Karri failed after some years in service and it was found that glues did not penetrate into the timber.
Acetone Meths IPA can be used but needs some testing before using.
Hope this helps

Yes, I did re-glue the Huon and cleaned it with Acetone before gluing. I am waiting for the result. So far so good, but I wait a year to be sure.
Thanks for the reassurance.:D
cheers