Do they not hear?

Leaking roof, ceiling in garage sagging and plaster joinparted over about 1m. Ring insurance and tell of problem. Answer all the usual questions about my integrity and explain seriousness of situation

An assessor wil RING you today or tomorrow. Lady this will only get worse, not better!!

Large section of ceiling collapses into garage tonight. Water damage spreading.

Ring Insurer. More crap questions. OK, after _ AGAIN_ explaining the seriousness of the problem they have decided to send a builder and an electrician around tonight. Imagine the overtime bill!! No bloody wonder premiums are higher than they should be.:~:~:~

That's because 80% of the 'OMG, OMG, the roof is going to collapse' calls that they get are no more serious than an overflowing gutter and a waterstain on the ceiling that just needs to be painted over.

The proportion of people who don't know/don't care vastly outnumbers those who can really describe the seriousness of the situation, so overall it pays to treat all customers as clueless idiots because you'll be right eight times out of ten!

Well, considering that I explained the situation acurately and without any show of distress or excitement, I think I deserved better consideration.

The electrcian turned up as water was running a torrent onto the floor from the hole in the ceiling.
We detected a slit in the sarking and then the electrician got onto the roof.

The buggers who had installed the PV solar panels had slipped 3 tiles back for access AND NOT REPLACED THEM.\\

The Builder turned up and secured the ceiling, took photos and submitted a report.

I just hope there is no Sh88 fight over responsibilty, and that the installers are insured.

Time will tell!!

Why hadn't you perched on the roof yourself to check / fix the problem before it became a catastrophe?

So it appears that the problem has nothing to do with your insurance company and they were wise not to rush in.

A bit of supervision of the tradesman and inspection of the solar installation on completion and prior to payment would have saved a lot of angst and problems.

Peter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christopha

Why hadn't you perched on the roof yourself to check / fix the problem before it became a catastrophe?

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Firstly I don't regard it as a catstrophe and secondly the damage only became apparent when the ceiling caved in and then collapsed.

It was only an hour or so after this that the electrician and then the builder turned up. My ladders are away on loan, s no means of getting on the roof.

Why the smug question? No need for it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

So it appears that the problem has nothing to do with your insurance company and they were wise not to rush in.

A bit of supervision of the tradesman and inspection of the solar installation on completion and prior to payment would have saved a lot of angst and problems.

Peter.

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Yes, the problem was to do with the insurance company as they were my first port of call. All I wanted them to do was listen more carefully in the first place. It only became apparent AFTER the insurance company sent TWO tradespeople out just what had caused the problem.

The installation was paid for in advance - one of those super specials.

In any case why should I have to inspect their work?? There were two of them and one would assume that they have a system in place whereby checks are carried out to see that this sort of thing doesn't happen.

It now becomes a problem between my insurers and the installers as to who meets the costs.


I'm sorry to have to say this to you Sturdee but I found this post of yours just a tad smug and superior. I feel it did not fit the situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christopha

Why hadn't you perched on the roof yourself to check / fix the problem before it became a catastrophe?

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The problem being that one has no idea if one has a leak until it rains dramatically and to suggest that someone gets up on a roof when its wet, unless you know what you are doing, is extremely dangerous. I spent over 20 years in the roof restoration and painting business and I would not suggest to anyone to climb onto a roof while it is raining or the roof is wet.

Roofs have a coating of years of grime and dirt that makes for a very slippery surface when wet hence when you see contractors high pressure cleaning a roof they only walk on the section of the roof that they have cleaned. If you stepped onto an uncleaned portion of the tiles or galvernised iron roofing, you are asking for trouble. I know, I slipped on a damp part of a roof one morning because it was too early and the moisture on the roof made the tiles very slippery. I spent the biggest part of 12 months recovering from a broken wrist and arm and this was after all those years of experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

I'm sorry to have to say this to you Sturdee but I found this post of yours just a tad smug and superior. I feel it did not fit the situation.

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If I have offended you I sincerely apologise as it was not intended and maybe I was influenced by your criticism of the Insurance company but no withdrawal of that criticism when it turned out to be not the Insurance company's problem.

Rather annoys me when people get on and complain bitterly but fail to say so when it turns they were wrong.

You had work done on the roof and did not check it, you assumed that it was done correctly but like all these new trades the quality of work can be lacking. Just think back to the roof insulation debacle.

I also assumed that, like myself, you would check work done before payment and never pay in full before completion. If that is a smug or superior attitude so be it.

Peter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

If I have offended you I sincerely apologise as it was not intended and maybe I was influenced by your criticism of the Insurance company but no withdrawal of that criticism when it turned out to be not the Insurance company's problem.

Rather annoys me when people get on and complain bitterly but fail to say so when it turns they were wrong.

You had work done on the roof and did not check it, you assumed that it was done correctly but like all these new trades the quality of work can be lacking. Just think back to the roof insulation debacle.

I also assumed that, like myself, you would check work done before payment and never pay in full before completion. If that is a smug or superior attitude so be it.

Peter.

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What he said.

Well, I have had some mind boggling things happen since I started this thread.

However, before I go onto that I would like to know, Peter and Christopha' why you think I was expected to get up and check the roof?? Do you check every piece of work that is done for you? If not then why point a finger at me??

NOW: the assessor duly arrived , took photos and made notes and submitted his report to the insurance company. The insurance company informed me that the claim would likely be rejected because the damage was a result of faulty workmanship and not the result of storm damage.

OK. Bit of a shock but I could see that. The insurance company told me to ge in touch with the company who had installed the PV panels and make an insurance claim through them. This I did and that is where the real surprises came

Firstly the lady in the office said that she was the manager and I could speak to her. When I told her the nature of the claim she informed me that this would have to be put to the director, who was not "in" at present. She also said I would have to get a copy of the report from my insurance company's assessor to her. This semmed fair and reasonable.

We went to the RACQ office and spoke to the woman handling the claim and were told that the report was insufficient and she had asked for extra information from the assessor. When this was all done we were promised an emali copy of the report along with photos. The report duly arrived and my wife emailed it to the suppliers. This Officer also said she would make further inquiries about the probability of a payout by them when the claims manager came back to work this Thursday, but it would still be wise to submit the report and a claim to the supplires.

My wife rang the supplier this morning. Talk about rats scrambling for cover!! The ey want "proof' that this damage was caused by faulty workmanship on their installers' part, after all one of us may have climbed on the roof and removed the tiles!!!:o
Or perhaps it was the result of an attempted break-in.:oo:

I later spoke to the woman and she denied that shed had said this to Ana. Said that Ana was "upset and did not understand. I was told that the director would want to ask a lot of questions and make a proper investigation, their installers are reliable, etc.etc.

What really annoyed me, and I'm afraid I lost the plot and yelled at her(She hung up), was the fact that I could see her doing two things:

!. Acting as inquisitor, solicitor, judge and jury. She was standing between me and the lodgement of a legitimate claim that, in my view,should rightly be examined by their insurers for a determinaton.

2. I could not provide her with the information without her asking another question, saying "but", or simply refusing to accept that what I was telling her was true.
Why did we get in touch with RACQ? Why didn't we contact them first?

Statements were also made by her regarding things of which she knew nothing because she wasn't on site.

eg.The installers would not have walked across the valley in the roof and broken the tile there that led to the damage in the kitchen,
Oh yes they did because I watched them!! ( not that I knew at the time that they had broken that tile)
No, that can't be right.


I am as mad as hell !! This claim should not be vetted by the company who is at fault. If I don't get satisfaction by the New Year I will place this in the hands of a solicitor and make a complaint to the Trade Practices people. If need be a couple of TV programs will be contacted.

Whatever the out come, this company will get no more of my business and I will not refer anyone to them..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

However, before I go onto that I would like to know, Peter and Christopha' why you think I was expected to get up and check the roof?? Do you check every piece of work that is done for you? If not then why point a finger at me??

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Yes, I check everything that is done on my house by tradesmen, not that there were many of them, before payment is made.

The major ones were the roof restoration where I took 2 days holidays from work to check that it was done correctly, amazing how well they do it when you are there to check it.

Another major one was the installation of the ducted heating system throughout the ceiling space and I crawled over all the ducting with the tradesmen to check.

Also when I had the guttering and down pipes replaced I checked every run with a level attached to a long piece of timber to check the fall and I got the installer' supervisor to help me check it before paying.

So I automatically assumed that anyone on this forum , being at least of handyman status, would check work done on the outside of their house, being roof, guttering, plumbing etc to ensure that it is done correctly. In fact I was surprised that you did not do so.

My post was not directly at you personally, Artme, but I would have posted my remarks in any other similar posts.

As to the rest of the post I would suggest that rather than ring and speak to a receptionist you make a claim in writing and deliver it personally to the company concerned and at this stage make a detailed record ( as you remember them) of the discussions especially dates and times for possible future use.


Peter.

A couple of years ago we had a bad storm here and water came in through the roof and caused some damage to the ceiling. The assessor from the insurance company checked the damage and checked the roof and reported that the roof had a problem around the chimney and this is where the rain came in. The problem was a fault caused by the builder not installing the flashing correctly at the time the house was built.

The insurance company, AMI, paid out the claim nevertheless but said that the problem has to be corrected now that we, the owners have been made aware of the fault, or in future, if damage was caused from this same source, we would not be covered. I think this was a very fair decision, it was the contention of the insurance company that we could not have known about the problem with the chimney prior to the storm as it would not be likely that we would be clambering over the roof to inspect its integrity but now we were aware of it, then it had to be fixed, which is understandable and very fair.

The insurance company didn't make any attempt to try and back out of their obligation and paid out the claim. I was very happy and pleased at the outcome.

I am not 100% certain but from memory from when I had property built in Sydney, there is some sort of claim you can make from some body or other when there is damage caused by faulty workmanship if you can't get satisfaction from the builder. Not sure is there is something in place for situations like the one you are having Arthur.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

So I automatically assumed that anyone on this forum , being at least of handyman status, would check work done on the outside of their house, being roof, guttering, plumbing etc to ensure that it is done correctly. In fact I was surprised that you did not do so.
.

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Your point is well made Peter and I'm sure artme wishes that he had checked the work now but I know Arthur personally and he is as straight as a rifle barrel and unfortunately he expects everyone one else to be the same.

Having read the thread, and everyone's point of view, I would like to think that the insurance company would fix the problem and then persue the relevant parties that caused the problem, much like motor insurance.

If that doesn't happen then I would then go to the relevant authority qbsa and see what they can do for you. All qbsa card holders are required to hold an insurance to cover workmanship problems. Installers of pv solar panels are required to hold a license from the QBSA(link to relevant licenseing statement) so they would be my next call.

Robert

Thanks for the compliment John!

I have contacted QBSA but the girl inferred that it was not of their concern, as it was not original building work. I have been mulling this over and will write o them about the matter. I think the answer may be different.

The Law Society of Queensland gave me a list of solicitors who specialise in Trade Practices Act cases. I will try this if the firm does not come to the party and pass my claim on to their insurers.

The ridiculousness of this whole matter is more apparent after reading the asessors estimate of costs to do the repair work less than $6000!!

This case highlights the point Peter makes about not paying until completion and satisfying yourself all is OK. This was a special deal whereby I paid upfront months ago.
No full payment, no deal. Just another case of buyer beware!

Some of the advice here assumes you know what to look for. Unfortunately a shoddy job is not always obvious on casual inspection. I also know it took me sometime to work up the courage to climb onto my two storey high roof to check out the solar HWS installation and flush the pressure valves.

During the insulation fiasco my sister in law had a friendly installer knock on her door and talk her in to letting him do the job. On (quick) completion he urged her to climb the ladder and look at the ceiling through the man hole. Not being familiar with crawling through roof spaces she looked around and saw insulation and said thanks very much. Some time later when the job was properly inspected it turned out the installers had just done a few meters around the man hole and the rest of the ceiling space was uninsulated!

Unfortunately in this case it sounds like Arthur is going to get the run around until solicitors get involved. And the problem there is usually finding a solicitor who will write a letter for you without having to mortgage your house.