the price of fuel

Driving in Jakarta, Indonesia is cool.

Total chaos, in a manner that everyone generally conforms to. There is a horn beep code to communicate with. The trouble is that when I get stuck in the traffic jams that basically gridlock the entire city, the carbon monoxideand carbon dioxide levels are so high that my fingernails and the palms of my hands go white from lack of oxygen.
Ahhhh Jakarta, 26 million people in the space of Melbourne. Can you imagine the air quality and smell in the morning when everyone gets up to do their 'evacuations'? A great place to go rat hunting too if you're into that thing.

Off the hijack:
Fuel price - the cost of 1.25 Lt of Coke is cheaper than 1.25 Lt's of ULP. :eek:
Come on the LPG dedicated Falcon - now to convince the missus it should be a 1tonner, not a wagon. If it was for her car, she would go the 1tonner, so long as it had some chrome roll bars - but I am supposed to make the sensible decisions.

On the trucking thing: My comment is not aimed at picking on the drivers. It is aimed at highlighting the silliness of using trucks, 1 driver, several hundred horsepower, rubber tyres, to drag 40-60 tons of freight accross Australia, when 1 train, can drag 1000's of tons of freight using much less fuel per ton.

The problem I want to see solved is that we as a society choose to use the fuel efficient option. That means we gotta find a way for road and rail to play on equal ground (currently trucking gets a free ride in my mind as it does not pay for the roads .... every one else does). We also have to solve the "its gotta be here yesterday" problem.... containers/road-rail trailers .. I'm open to innovation to improve the speed of delivery by trains. Ships between Syd- Melb-Bris are probably even more fuel efficient .. but speed has never been a strong point. I have the belief that there is an answer ... if we can be bothered to find it.

We also need to get the trucking companies out of politics .. or find a way to give the same power of influence to other modes of transport. Lets use trucks where they make sense (delivery at each end) and leave them out of the long distance stuff.

Here is a weird dream. Public railway lines open to anyone to run a train on. Minimum of dual track on all lines. All capitals in Aus interconnected. Passsing loops regularly. Think of the Hume highway, but based on rail with trains buffer to buffer in each direction running at 140kph. No road level crossings. Imagine the mess when it all goes pear shaped ..

Am I a closet greeny? ... probably. :)

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Fuel price - the cost of 1.25 Lt of Coke is cheaper than 1.25 Lt's of ULP.

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So it should be. Coke is a renewable resource.

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Originally Posted by Grunt

So it should be. Coke is a renewable resource.

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The lining of your stomach isnt though :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

The coke comparison was made as it made me realise that my fuel consumption is truly ridiculous. Too bad my public transport option means I'd get no family time.

Havinago - I'm hearing you, and yes, there may well be a better way.
I think that trucks are probably more efficient in a nation that occupies a large area, has little useable river networks (from a freight perspective), and has a small population. Change the rail lay out and that may change.
Freight companies are dropping off using the Adelaide to Darwin rail link for several reasons - I've heard reasons such as: road freight is more economical, reliable, faster and flexible but in the end the market has decided road freight is better. The rail link had stupid levels of subsidy poured into it, so if it cant compete... This Liberal government sticks pretty hard to the theory of letting the market arrive at the best economic outcome, and that may be why road trains are so widely used, simply more competitive.

The point still stands that trucks do pay for the road wear they produce, through rego costs just like car users. I don't know the rego costs and the breakdown of what goes to road repair vs the road repair bill caused by trucks - maybe we should find out.
As always the cost is shifted on to the 'end user', because they are creating the demand, and in effect contracting the freight onto the trucks, by buying truck delivered goods.
The power of influence that you believe truck concerns have may or not exist - maybe its the truck users (you and I) that are creating the influence, by choosing the most efficient option.
Again - yes rail would probably be better if infrastructure was improved - but if its not more efficient then we will all probably scream when we have to pay more for the freight component in our shopping. Rail infrastructure has been run down all over Australia, due to the non-competitive nature of rail, not due to Lindsay Fox having a chat to his Canberra mates.

The point about society choosing the most economic option is demonstrated in my hunt for a LPG dedicated car. Its the option I can afford, i can't afford the BMW/Merc diesel that gets 1300 km to the tank, and the new hybrids are out of my range - I'd love a hybrid. The change happens slowly, and I am sure that I'll be pulling out in front of electric road trains in my methane from sewage powered car when I am 80 and half blind :D
Nothing wrong with being a greenie - a pretty sensible thing to be.

Which sounds better to you?

a. A large infrastructure owned by you and maintained by you, you employ all of the people who make it happen and you take the consequences when it stuffs up.

b. Thousands of individuals who make their own investment, pay for their own maintenance, fund their own leave and superannuation, take their own risks and cop their own flak.

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Originally Posted by Clinton1

The point about society choosing the most economic option is demonstrated in my hunt for a LPG dedicated car. Its the option I can afford, i can't afford the BMW/Merc diesel that gets 1300 km to the tank, and the new hybrids are out of my range - I'd love a hybrid.

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But if you can afford a new LPG monster, you can afford a Citroen or Peugeot, both of whom have been at the forefront of diesel technology for decades, and will cost a LOT less to run over the 500,000k + life of the car.

Cheers,

P

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by HavinaGo

We also have to solve the "its gotta be here yesterday" problem.... containers/road-rail trailers ..

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TARDIS

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Originally Posted by clinton1

This Liberal government sticks pretty hard to the theory of letting the market arrive at the best economic outcome, and that may be why road trains are so widely used, simply more competitive.

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A market solution to this problem is, at the moment, not profitable. As mush as the conservatives and right wing of lefties spruik the wonders of the free market, until there is a buck to be made, it won't be done. People aren't going to pay huge amounts like they do pharmaceuticals

Digress
Nine just played an emergency call from Katrina and this person was stuck in the attic of her house with a disabled child and the water was rising. I didn't leave it on long enough to see what happened but is it in the public interest to hear an almost hysterical woman pleading for help. If she didn't make it, then it's not a very dignified. Even if she did, it's totally inappropriate for 4.40pm.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Never been to Asia then, Mat?

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I've driven in mexico (trust me they have some very strange road rules and driving conditions) and still found aussie drivers to be far more unbredictable and dangerous. I have driven on every continent except asia and africa and I have yet to find a situation where fully loaded semi trucks routinely drive less than six feet of the back bumper of the car in front until I drove from the Maroochy to Sydney and back.

In a chaotic environment where everyone is driving in a similar fashion it's actually very easy to drive in those situations. But here where there are about 10% of drivers that are absolute idiots it becomes very difficult to anticipate what's going to happen. I drive about 50 km back and forth to work and I see 2 serious incidents where someone has to take serious evasive actions to avoid an accident every week. Usually it appears to involve some idiot that has no idea what mirrors are for and changes lanes very quickly.

New Landcruiser V8 $68000.00 :D

Cost to fill tank $165.00 :mad:

Gall to tell people you
dont know how to live
thier lives.............................PRICELESS :rolleyes:


dazzler......

gotta go and fill the landcruiser up before we run out.........

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Originally Posted by adrian

I've done plenty of driving in France and Italy and their idiots put our idiots to shame. I've never known people who can drive so fast in a traffic jamb. I don't even want to talk about New York. I still can't incurl my toes.

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Personally I thought Italians, including Romans, were some of the best drivers I've experienced. Enough chaos to keep it interesting but in no way dangerous.

Never been to France and can't say I have any desire to go - had too many bad reports from friends that went.

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Originally Posted by dazzler

New Landcruiser V8 $68000.00 :D

Cost to fill tank $165.00 :mad:

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My little toyota that was Midges daughters takes 42 litre to fill and will go for about 600km around town. On th way down to Sydney I kept the speed at round 90kph and was getting about 775km per fill. And that little bugger has seen better days, it has over 230000km :D

Tell me more midge - seriously.
I'm looking at @$13,000 for a 2001-2002 model Falcon wagon on dedicated LPG, low km's.
I need one car that does the lot, transport me to and from work, pull a trailer with garden waste and renovation/timber items, transport two medium sized dogs with us, and will allow a couple of kids and the missus fit in. I know its a tall order to get everything from one car, but finances dictate terms.

I used to live 3 km from work and run or walk to and back (depending on the Melbourne weather). The wagon was bought 3 years old and the plan was to hold it untill it was scrap... like my first car, a 4cylinder Toyota that I held for 10 years. We bought a house, and could only afford the way outer suburbs. From about 20 km's a week to over 600km's - :eek: I'd get a motorbike, but peak hour is scary.

I know nothing about the Citroen/Peugeot - what should I be looking at? Do tell.

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Originally Posted by MathewA

I've driven in mexico .

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Why didnt you call in. :mad:

Al :D

Clinton,

You could get a nice economical car like Al has.

http://www.ford.com.au/range/fseries...f250pickup.asp