breaking covid rules

Warb

That is such a cynical view. I am not sure I understand how you can attribute such obnoxious characteristics to our unselfish, community-minded politicians whose only objective is to ensure our welfare.

:rolleyes:

I enjoyed the read, but I will take one line, your first line, and and highlight that with no further comment required.

"Now we're getting closer to the real issues. Everything is a political decision, and every political decision is based on the politician's perceptions of what will get them votes."

Other than that, we can count on the fingers of a badly damaged hand the number of politicians who do not fall into that category.

I do have a query on the number of deaths in Australia. Johns Hopkins, which I have used for all my statistics on this thread, reports 910 deaths. This figure has not increased for some days, although the cases have indeed increased.


Attachment 497785

The 910 deaths reported for Australia by JH is still remarkably low.

The disturbing figure from today is the milestone of 4 million deaths was passed. This is in itself a wake up call to all those who early on in the piece quoted that far more died as a result of the Spanish Flu post WW1. Today we have more advanced medicine and better facilities than were available in the twenties, the virus is clearly far from played out and the casualties ore still rampant.. The other issue I feel obliged to mention is that the cart above is compiled from reported cases, There are parts of the world where reporting is poor and the capability is not there. This is just what we know.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The disturbing figure from today is the milestone of 4 million deaths was passed. This is in itself a wake up call to all those who early on in the piece quoted that far more died as a result of the Spanish Flu post WW1.

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Figures for the Spanish Flu are a bit vague, due to the limited technology of the age, however the usual estimate is 50million deaths worldwide from around 500million cases - 10% mortality with around a third of the population infected. In the US there were estimated to be 675,000 deaths, whilst covid has so far caused 606,000. But remember that the US now has 3 times the population that it did in 1918, so if we scale that up it would be nearly 2million deaths for the US alone. The Spanish flu is still "winning", but I'm not sure that's anything to celebrate!!

More interesting is that there were 4 waves of the Spanish flu.......

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Originally Posted by ian

I think that Warb's point is that given the relative risk -- catching Covid and becoming so ill that you require hospitalisation vs the risk of getting a blood clot from the AstraZeneca vaccine (3.1 per 100,000 for those under 50) -- there is nothing inherently wrong with the AstraZeneca vaccine. I tend to agree with Warb, given the choice -- take the AstraZeneca jab vs get Covid badly enough to send you to hospital -- the vaccine is the better option.

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I totally agree - I’ve had the Astra Zeneca vaccine with only minor side effects.
What has got under my skin, is the harping on in the press re the side effects of AZ with barely a mention of the side effects of Pfizer and the incorrect information being broadcast. One needs to know as much correct information so they can make a informed decision re vaccination hence my posting of the facts re side effects and age.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warb

Figures for the Spanish Flu are a bit vague, due to the limited technology of the age, however the usual estimate is 50million deaths worldwide from around 500million cases - 10% mortality with around a third of the population infected.

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Given there were no definitive viral tests in the early 1900's, the 500 million numbers are very rubbery. Remember many people that get Covid19 are asymptomatic (2 of my elderly Italian and one elderly Brazilian relatives have been in this category) and so are only picked up after being tested. For all we know the entire population of the world may have been infected with SF.

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In the US there were estimated to be 675,000 deaths, whilst covid has so far caused 606,000. But remember that the US now has 3 times the population that it did in 1918, so if we scale that up it would be nearly 2million deaths for the US alone. The Spanish flu is still "winning", but I'm not sure that's anything to celebrate!!

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I'm not sure that is a case of the SF flu winning, or advances in treatment of viral infections - even in 3rd world countries, drugs (not including vaccines) and ICU care has come a long way in 100 years, If we treated Covid19 in the same way we treated SF then I maybe more people might die from Covid19.

One thing to celebrate here is that delta is the dominant variant now, and where I live (pittsburgh), within the county and within the entire state, we are completely open, but due to the efficacy of the vaccine, we continue to see both declines in case rates and declines in positive testing rates (so the issue isn't lack of testing - the latter rats out the former as it rises if the cases haven't dropped).

when I say the vaccine, it's really the mRNA type. If there's a risk here that I'm aware of, it's pfizer (I have two pfizer shots - no issues in terms of side effects, though my wife was wiped out for a day and a half with her second shot). However, Pfizer expected to be able to get a "durable revenue stream" out of the vaccine and despite the case rates dropping in areas where most people are vaccinating, pfizer is appealing to the US and europe to get a waiver to start giving a third shot right away.

At this point, if you do manage to test positive for covid (most double vaccinated cases are actually asymptomatic or minor and the case load is less than a 10th of without the shots), you're almost lucky as the case will be minor and apparently a case of covid combined with the vaccines only increases the accuracy of long-term antibody B type cells as well as messenger T cells (as in, two shots may make it so you never get covid again. Two shots plus covid only appears to make it more likely that your immunity will be very very long term).

We paid our dues as a society here, though, so to speak. I only hope that all western societies observe just how different the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines are vs. the other types and citizens get the former and not the latter.

The ABC is running a story that KRudd has got on the phone to the top dog of Pfizer and arranged for us to get some more vaccine and sooner
Dont know how much truth there is in it or how much is political point scoring

It sounds like instead of trying to figure out how they can make americans a "durable revenue source", maybe they should be selling doses to the aussies. It sounds like you guys need them more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by D.W.

We paid our dues as a society here, though, so to speak. I only hope that all western societies observe just how different the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines are vs. the other types and citizens get the former and not the latter.

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We over 60 have no choice at the moment. We can wait until October while Delta rips through Sydney and hope upon hope we don’t catch it or we get the AZ shot.
Pfizer efficacy may be slightly higher than AZ. Until the Johnson and Johnson vaccine came out you only had the MRNA and one more cynical than myself may suggest that the US stalling the approval of AZ has a lot to do with where the vaccines are manufactured and economic benefits.

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Originally Posted by Lappa

We over 60 have no choice at the moment. We can wait until October while Delta rips through Sydney and hope upon hope we don’t catch it or we get the AZ shot.
Pfizer efficacy may be slightly higher than AZ. Until the Johnson and Johnson vaccine came out you only had the MRNA and one more cynical than myself may suggest that the US stalling the approval of AZ has a lot to do with where the vaccines are manufactured and economic benefits.

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refusal to notice the efficacy of ivermectin as prophylaxis despite its use elsewhere has a lot to do with approval of pfizer and moderna, too. They are definitely more effective than ivermectin, but some things here never change.

As far as your choice goes, you get the AZ and you live. You might get sick, but you live. It seems like a simple choice.

You can always get a booster shot of pfizer later.

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Originally Posted by Beardy

The ABC is running a story that KRudd has got on the phone to the top dog of Pfizer and arranged for us to get some more vaccine and sooner
Dont know how much truth there is in it or how much is political point scoring

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Here is a link to Reddit and some discussion on it: Senior business figures turned to Kevin Rudd to intervene in bringing forward Australia'''s Pfizer vaccine supply : AustralianPolitics

It would seem to ring true. Rudd has no politics in this, only a solution.

Morrison has failed as a leader. His decision making is absolutely terrible. His personality is terrible. His ability to lead is terrible. The only thing keeping him in the job is the change in the Liberals constitution that prohibits him from being rolled (after the endless procession of changes, they changed their rules).

We are now stuck with a dud.

A dud.

Our country is facing a crisis. In the bushfires it was "I don't hold the hose mate"..... and during this plague he is absent. When he does appear he comes across as an imbecile.

We deserve what we voted for, but jjeessuuss can he get replaced, SOON!!!

... our very lives depend on it.

Attachment 497878


edit: I saw this fabulous piece of writing and saved it. It describes him perfectly...
Attachment 497885

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardy

The ABC is running a story that KRudd has got on the phone to the top dog of Pfizer and arranged for us to get some more vaccine and sooner
Dont know how much truth there is in it or how much is political point scoring

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Political point scoring :o
Not from Kevin OO7 :no:
He was 'reaching out' as a concerned citizen
Makes me feel warm and fuzzy :B
Log Dog :;

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Originally Posted by woodPixel

Here is a link to Reddit and some discussion on it: Senior business figures turned to Kevin Rudd to intervene in bringing forward Australia'''s Pfizer vaccine supply : AustralianPolitics

It would seem to ring true. Rudd has no politics in this, only a solution.

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Pfizer has categorically denied this story saying they only deal with the Govt.

Seems like Rudd can’t help himself with trying to get brownie points based on a lie.

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Originally Posted by D.W.

As far as your choice goes, you get the AZ and you live. You might get sick, but you live. It seems like a simple choice.

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No different to getting a Pfizer shot. I’ve had my first AZ shot and in 5 weeks I get the second. Until then I stay hunkered down.

JGT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by woodPixel

Here is a link to Reddit and some discussion on it: Senior business figures turned to Kevin Rudd to intervene in bringing forward Australia'''s Pfizer vaccine supply : AustralianPolitics

It would seem to ring true. Rudd has no politics in this, only a solution.

Morrison has failed as a leader. His decision making is absolutely terrible. His personality is terrible. His ability to lead is terrible. The only thing keeping him in the job is the change in the Liberals constitution that prohibits him from being rolled (after the endless procession of changes, they changed their rules).

We are now stuck with a dud.

A dud.

Our country is facing a crisis. In the bushfires it was "I don't hold the hose mate"..... and during this plague he is absent. When he does appear he comes across as an imbecile.

We deserve what we voted for, but jjeessuuss can he get replaced, SOON!!!

... our very lives depend on it.

Attachment 497878


edit: I saw this fabulous piece of writing and saved it. It describes him perfectly...
Attachment 497885

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Pfizer have since gone on the record to say it isn’t true and all discussions are only with the government and are confidential
I had my suspicions seeing as though it was reported by ABC and the Guardian. Whilst I agree Scomo could be handling things better I look around on both sides of the political fence and the pool is very shallow

Our Premier came out this morning with a harder lockdown and a statement that only essential businesses on her list can stay open. Then, in the next breath, she says you must wear a mask if working in outdoor markets or outside picking up a coffee.
Her list on the NSW site does NOT list outdoor markets and coffee shops as the essential businesses.